Bill O'Reilly Calls On Obama To Pursue 1960s Tax Reform
Fox News' Bill O'Reilly is urging President Obama to follow President John F. Kennedy's footsteps and propose lowering taxes for the rich to spur economic growth. But during Kennedy's term, the top marginal tax rate stood at 91 percent and his proposal would have lowered it to 65; whereas, the top marginal rate today is a historically low 35 percent.
O'Reilly Urges Obama To Emulate Kennedy Tax Proposal For Rich Taxpayers
O'Reilly: "In 1962, President Kennedy Proposed A Big Tax Cut For The Rich In Order To Stimulate The Economy." O'Reilly said on his Fox News show:
O'REILLY: We have been closely analyzing the terrible economic situation in this country: Dow down almost 400 today. And there's no question that President Obama's big-government management solutions aren't working. Also, the tax-the-rich mantra -- a ruse. There's simply not enough people in the entire country to make a dent in the federal debt no matter how much you take from them.
[...]
O'REILLY: I'm standing for Americans with common sense, people who understand that under a Democratic Congress, the nation racked more than $5 trillion in debt in just four years, even as the economy tanked. So, I and many others have come to the conclusion that the liberal tenet of taxing the rich and spending like Arab Sheiks may not be the solution to fixing a moribund economy.
[...]
O'REILLY: Now, I do seem to remember Floyd The Barber and Goober grousing about a 90-percent income tax rate, but it is a myth. The top tax rate in the 1950s peaked at 92 percent. But nobody actually paid anything close to that. In fact, in 1951, the handful of Americans -- we're talking maybe 200 making more than a million dollars a year -- paid about 62 percent. Onerous, to be sure.
But in 1962, President Kennedy proposed a big tax cut for the rich in order to stimulate the economy and encourage investment. And the rates have been moderating ever since. [Fox News, The O'Reilly Factor, 9/22/11]
But During Kennedy's Time, The Top Marginal Tax Rate Was 91 Percent
Kennedy Called For Lowering Top Marginal Income Tax Rate From 91 Percent To 65 Percent. From Kennedy's January 14, 1963, State of the Union address:
Now, when the inflationary pressures of the war and the post-war years no longer threaten, and the dollar commands new respect -- now, when no military crisis strains our resources -- now is the time to act. We cannot afford to be timid or slow. For this is the most urgent task confronting the Congress in 1963.
In an early message, I shall propose a permanent reduction in tax rates which will lower liabilities by $13.5 billion. Of this, $11 billion results from reducing individual tax rates, which now range between 20 and 91 percent, to a more sensible range of 14 to 65 percent, with a split in the present first bracket. [University of Virginia Miller Center, accessed 9/23/11]
Top Marginal Tax Rate Was Lowered To 70 Percent In 1965. In 1964, the top marginal income tax rate was lowered from 91 percent to 77 percent. In 1965, it came down to 70 percent. [Tax Policy Center, 1/31/11]
Whereas The Top Marginal Tax Rate Is Now At 35 Percent
The Top Marginal Tax Rate Is Currently 35 Percent. The top marginal income tax rate has been 35 percent since 2003. [Tax Policy Center, 1/31/11]
Indeed, Federal Taxes Are At "Historically Low Levels"
CBPP: The Median Family's Federal Income Taxes Are "Lower Than In Any Year Since 1955 ... Except For 2009." A report updated by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) on April 15 found that "[m]iddle-income Americans are now paying federal taxes at or near historically low levels." From the report:
Middle-income Americans are now paying federal taxes at or near historically low levels, according to the latest available data. That's true whether it comes to their federal income taxes or their total federal taxes.
- Income taxes: A family of four in the exact middle of the income spectrum will pay only 4.7 percent of its income in federal income taxes this year, according to a new analysis by the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center. This is the third-lowest percentage in the past 50 years, after 2008 and 2009.
- Overall federal taxes: Middle-income households are paying overall federal taxes -- which include income as well as payroll and excise taxes -- at or near their lowest levels in decades, according to the latest data from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
[...]
This year and last, the Making Work Pay tax credit, which President Obama and Congress enacted as part of the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, is providing a credit of $800 to married joint filers ($400 to single filers). A median-income family with two children thus will receive an $800 tax cut in the return it files this year.
With the Making Work Pay tax credit, the median family's federal income taxes will equal just 4.7 percent of its income in 2010. That is lower than in any year since 1955 (the first year for which these data are available) except for 2009, when taxpayers also received the Making Work Pay credit, and 2008, when another stimulus-related tax cut was in effect.
The post also included the following chart illustrating the average federal income tax rate since 1955:

[Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 4/15/11]
Former Reagan Adviser Bartlett: As Percentage Of GDP, "Federal Taxes Are At Their Lowest Level In More Than 60 Years." Bruce Bartlett, former adviser to President Reagan and Treasury Department economist under George H.W. Bush, wrote in a May 31 post on the New York Times blog Economix:
Historically, the term "tax rate" has meant the average or effective tax rate -- that is, taxes as a share of income. The broadest measure of the tax rate is total federal revenues divided by the gross domestic product.
By this measure, federal taxes are at their lowest level in more than 60 years. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that federal taxes would consume just 14.8 percent of G.D.P. this year. The last year in which revenues were lower was 1950, according to the Office of Management and Budget.
The postwar annual average is about 18.5 percent of G.D.P. Revenues averaged 18.2 percent of G.D.P. during Ronald Reagan's administration; the lowest percentage during that administration was 17.3 percent of G.D.P. in 1984.
In short, by the broadest measure of the tax rate, the current level is unusually low and has been for some time. Revenues were 14.9 percent of G.D.P. in both 2009 and 2010.
[...]
The truth of the matter is that federal taxes in the United States are very low. There is no reason to believe that reducing them further will do anything to raise growth or reduce unemployment. [The New York Times, 5/31/11]
Bartlett: "[F]ederal Taxes Are Very Considerably Lower By Every Measure Since Obama Became President." In a March 19, 2010, post on Forbes.com, Bartlett wrote that "federal taxes are very considerably lower by every measure since Obama became president. And given the economic circumstances, it's hard to imagine that a tax increase would have been enacted last year." Bartlett continued:
In fact, 40% of Obama's stimulus package involved tax cuts. These include the Making Work Pay Credit, which reduces federal taxes for all taxpayers with incomes below $75,000 by between $400 and $800.
According to the JCT, last year's $787 billion stimulus bill, enacted with no Republican support, reduced federal taxes by almost $100 billion in 2009 and another $222 billion this year. The Tax Policy Center, a private research group, estimates that close to 90% of all taxpayers got a tax cut last year and almost 100% of those in the $50,000 income range. For those making between $40,000 and $50,000, the average tax cut was $472; for those making between $50,000 and $75,000, the tax cut averaged $522. No taxpayer anywhere in the country had his or her taxes increased as a consequence of Obama's policies. [Forbes.com, 3/19/10]
And Economic Circumstances In The 1960s Were Different Than Today
Economist Ed Lotterman: "Economic Times Have Changed Since JFK." Rebutting failed Senate candidate Linda McMahon's (R-CT) invocation of Kennedy to argue for extending the Bush tax cuts, economist Edward Lotterman wrote that "Kennedy entered office with the nation's finances in good shape." Lotterman continued:
Yes, the debt-GDP ratio would fall further until it hit its low point of 32.6 percent at the end of the Carter administration. But with a deficit of only 0.6 percent of GDP for the 1961 fiscal year in which JFK took the oath of office, there was room for additional spending or for tax cuts.
Kennedy knew little about economics and did not hold strong views, relying instead on his economic advisers. These, headed by Minnesota's Walter Heller and including two future Nobelists, James Tobin and Robert Solow, were dyed-in-the-wool Keynesians.
That is, they favored increasing government spending and cutting taxes during a recession. But it also meant they wanted higher taxes and reduced spending when a recession was over.
[...]
Kennedy called for a tax cut because his Keynesian aides advised him to at a time when the national debt was declining in relative terms and when budget deficits were low. No one knows what he would do now. [Bismarck Tribune, 10/10/10]
Kennedy Nephew: U.S. Economy Was Very Different When President Kennedy Proposed Lowering Taxes. In September 2010, the AP reported that Edward M. Kennedy Jr., a nephew of the late president, wrote to McMahon asking her to pull a campaign ad in which she used a video excerpt of a 1963 speech by Kennedy to advocate for tax cuts. In the letter, Kennedy wrote that McMahon "distorts the legacy of President Kennedy in order to mislead voters into thinking" he would have supported her position on tax policy, adding:
In 1963, there was virtually no deficit and the top tax rate was 91 percent for income over $400,000. Today, the annual U.S. deficit is nearly $1.5 trillion and the top tax rate is 35 percent for income over $372,500." [The Associated Press, 9/22/10]
Robert Schlesinger: Kennedy's Advocacy For Tax Cuts Was About "A Very Specific Circumstance." In U.S. News & World Report, opinion editor Robert Schlesinger wrote:
The notion of Kennedy as supply-side forerunner is a powerful myth, but it is a myth. Context is key. Conservatives love to quote a speech Kennedy gave at the Economic Club of New York in December 1962. Here's one quote -- I've italicized the crucial part often left out: "Our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking."
JFK was not expounding an implacable economic philosophy; he was speaking about a very specific circumstance. The top marginal tax rate was 91 percent, which JFK wanted reduced to a "more sensible" 65 percent. Compare that with today's 35 percent top rate, and ask: If supply-siders are so enamored of JFK's tax policies, would they advocate a return to a "more sensible" 65 percent top rate? Applying Kennedy's tax talk to the current structure, JFK biographer Robert Dallek says, is like comparing "apples and watermelons." [U.S. News & World Report, 1/26/11]











How is it that tax cutting even further at the top, giving already wealthy people even more will stimulate economic growth? How will giving millionaires yet another tax break help stimulate demand amongst working and middle-class consumers? We cut taxes further under GWBush and ended with the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression. There is no definitive correlation between tax cutting and economic growth. There just isn't.
How is it that giving already very wealthy people even MORE wealth will trickle-down to the masses? How will even more tax cutting stimulate consumer demand?
Top that off with stagnant wages when you factor in inflation and no 'credit' for the vast increases in productivity the middle class used to benefit from, and they've gotten the short end of the stick for years.
What taxing the richest among us a little more will do is make them sacrifice like they haven't had to do before.
You are a LIAR and a jerk asking a pitiful and ignorant loaded question. Taxes are not confiscation anymore than paying your electric bill is confiscation. Since you are too stupid to understand this obvious concept why should we bother trying to educate you to the level of minimal sentience?
You are a LIAR. The government creates jobs all the time. Federal workers are gov created jobs. How many jobs were created by the internet? Rural electrification, NASA, the NIH, the FBI. My GOD but you are so stupid you just think if you say something over and over eventually it will become true no matter how stupid it is
You end talking about government jobs when you stupidly asserted earlier the government cannot create jobs. Your stupidity is a wonder to behold. What was the multiplier effect of the technology we gained when NASA went to the moon. How many jobs were created from the R&D from that project? You are stupid, you are brainwashed, you are a LIAR who thinks your Randinista dogma was given you by GOD and is unassailable. What is it about THAT you cannot understand?
And so you're 100% wrong that the government can't create jobs. They can, by directed spending, create many, many jobs, and one of the way they do that is by creating government jobs that then allow some consumers to spend money.
When the economy is in a period of doldrums, extra spending that wouldn't happen without government economic stimulus helps stimulate the economy! It replaces the missing consumer spending that's missing because of a lack of consumer confidence and due to increased unemployment/underemployment. Anyone who knows anything about the economy knows this.
The government also is one of the largest contractors on Earth which then contracts with countless others. Additionally, where do you think firemen and such get their hoses, trucks, food, clothing, health care, etc., etc., etc? These all create more jobs.
As far as unions insert a big awwwww sound here. Unions negotiated for their rights. If you're not happy with the deals they negotiated then you're not even a capitalist--your a dictator. Your issue should be with those who gave them the benefits in the first place. Just amazing. You want to strip away benefits these people earned but then cry foul when there's talk of taxes. Do you not see the hypocrisy here?
Lastly, we've been listening to this drivel about trickle-down economics forever. It didn't work for Hoover and it has never worked since. Take your ill-informed Fox-driven talking points and step aside.
No one is confiscating anything. Just as is the case in all America there's a cost for playing here. Suddenly, now that it's time to pay the bill you want to sneak out and leave just a tip on the table without paying the bill. Sorry. We've let you get away with that so often that now we're all paying for your lack of morality. Enough.
Why was our economy much more robust when income tax rates were upwards of 80% under Eisenhower or even near 40% under Clinton, yet our economy sputters with tax rates at historic LOWS? Why? Shouldn't things be booming since tax burdens are at historic LOWS?
How will cutting taxes even further stimulate consumer demand? How?
I made $20k in the 70's and am now over $200k, heck, even minimum wage is much higher than the 70's.
Also, if you took every dollar earned by every American, this would not work either as we would all be homeless and starving with a completely collasped economy.
Is this what you're looking for?
Maybe in a century or so after the economy has become a wasteland us plebs might get some goodies.
That's in addition, as heehee has hinted, to supporting private businesses by spending the money they earn to feed, clothe, shelter, educate, entertain and medicate their families. Every job your "austerity" takes out of the economy injures the economy, and in a consumer-driven economy like this one, teetering on the edge if not already slipping into a second dip recession, that's madness.
You are stupid and brainwashed and pathetic. I work for the railroad. An industry that was created when the government PAID for the laying of track and awarded land to be developed by the entrepenuers to pay for their rolling stock. Another example of public cost turning into private profit. You are stupid. You refuse to understand that a large part of our economy is this way. I could list dozens of industries that owe their existance to government help
Morons like YOU have been brainwashed to think we do not subsidize industries when we DO. We hide those subsidies so really stupid people like you can be convinced of this soulless Randinista crap.
Of course you think we should kiss some rich guys azz. It is what you do constantly. You get way up there in the brown kissing the butt of wealth and power constantly. You have no dignity and you have no self respect. Rich guys should kiss public azz since a whole lot of them wouldnt BE rich without the public investment that allowed their industries to flourish. GOD but you are stupid
I keep wondering how lowering the corporate tax rate is going to help with the companies that already pay nothing. For them this would be a huge increase if they paid.
I'm also sick of the lament of the "rich guy". The "rich guy" that made his fortune in America did so with a huge advantage. Take any of the amazing Wall Street guys. Drop them into Madagascar and see how much money they can make on the Madagascar Stock Exchange. The point is that at every step of the way they had to pay for the privilege to do business here. School wasn't free. The rent for the businesses wasn't free. The equipment they use wasn't free and all of it keeps going up. Yet, the biggest benefit of all--being in America--is the bill these people want to skimp on or skip out on entirely.
There's a price to doing business in America. If the rich don't like it they're free to go do business anywhere else they like. Why are they doing it here if it's so terrible? The price is taxation. Again, all these poor rich people are free to go dominate the Madagascar opportunities anytime they like.
Silence.
Obama wants to keep running deficits now and then raise taxes in 2013 if the economy is in decent shape. It is your idiot side that wants to 'confiscate more wealth from the private sector' through spending cuts because they're to dumb to realize it will collapse the economy.
But keep trying. Arguing with the likes of you help keep my wits sharp.
BTW, did you see the Doonesbury comic strip today, with the honest businessman? You should.
Get your facts straight. Kennedy's 65% kicked in at income over $400,000! That would be at least $10 million today.
Two things: One federal income taxes are not the most, only or worst taxes that people pay. Second, I see it a bigger problem that they are earning so below to tax line rather than they are not paying anything. Taxing them will solve/equalize nothing. 5% of 0 is still 0.
You are not questioning. You are whining.
You are absolutly ignorant. You are one of the most ignorant human beings on the planet. You are just so brainwashed you THINK you know things. It arent the things you dont know that are so bad as the things you THINK you know that just arent true.
You are so ignorant you dont realize that you are not questioning the status quo. You are carrying their water and blathering ignorant propaganda they have brainwashed you with. Your ignorance is monumental
Here's what you wrote.
But no one is talking about increasing taxes right now, when the economy still needs stimulating and when jobs still need to be created. There is no "status quo" of taxes being raised right now.
And then on top of that, raising tax rates on the richest Americans won't impede growth or job expansion or anything else unless the rich behave against their own best interests. When tax rates for the rich go up, they should reinvest their money in their businesses rather than have their profits taxed at a higher rate. Higher taxes actually promote reinvestment and job creation - if they 'spend' tht money that could have been their profits that way, they get full value for that money. If they take that same money as profits, they only get the value after taxes.
I'm not implying that you're incapable of participating in a debate on this topic. I'm stating loudly and proudly that you're incapable of it.
In the words of a famous American 'businessman' from back in the day, "The public be damned!"
That quote seems to be the guiding light behind much of the American businesses that thrive, not to mention the attitude behind many of the rich elite that now essentially rule America like nobility. The monetary divide in America is at historic lows (equaled only by SOME of the 'Banana Republics' but not all) while the class stagnation (if you're born poor in America, you are overwhelmingly likely to die poor, the same if you are born wealthy) is so low that it actually beats out 'stalwarts' like India and China, who are FAMED for their class divisions.
There has been and still is 'class warfare' in America and it is indeed 'bs', you're right. The only problem is that you're claiming that the wealthy are having it inflicted upon them. It's the other way around. The wealthy have waged the war and, by and large, won it.
Spoken like someone who is acknowledging that Faux lies and is OK with rolling with it. Ever thought?...............nuf said.
Because the size of the economy and labor force varies, we also calculate in percentage terms how much the total payroll count expanded under each president. The current President Bush, once taking account how long he’s been in office, shows the worst track record for job creation since the government began keeping records. –Sudeep Reddy
As I recall, Bush put two wars on a credit card so he could cut taxes on the "job creators." Doesn't seem to have worked out. Now you claim to do your own thinking, while all you've posted have been right wing talking points and diatribes. Explain your love of tax cuts in view of the obvious failure of the Bush ones.
You hypocritical MORON. Other than YOUR insults and the talking points YOU were told to think and spew endlessly there is nothing whatsoever in your pathetic posts.
I love the way you snivel about being called a LIAR. Why dont you stop telling lies instead of lying constantly then snivelling like a PUNK that we call you on lying endlessly? A person with an ounce of dignity and decency might stop lying but not you. No you double down on your lies then say WWWWWAAHHHHHHH you keep calling me a liar.
You stink. The class warfare term you refer to is being used by the Republicans to "protect" the wealthiest Americans.
That is a large claim that the independents have left him. When have conservatives ever voted for him? (All they do is get in the way.) His liberal base is quite strong, actually. He is on pace to break a billion dollars in revenue for the 2012 campaign.
You don't stimulate the economy by confiscating wealth. You do, however, help reduce the deficit (in any possible way) by confiscating wealth.
GOD but you are stupid and brainwashed. Confiscating? Taxes ar the price we pay to HAVE a society. Is your wealth being confiscated when you pay your electricity bill? Why dont you go live on a desert island and eat nuts and berries then you wont have to pay taxes?
You are a LIAR. No class warfare from Obama. You are a LIAR the independents will vote for him and have not left him. He will be lucky to get the liberals who were NEVER his base. Liberals are Dennis Kucinichs base. It is astonishing how stupid you are
Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution.
And . . .
Amendment 16 of the United States Constitution.
You may not like it, but it is the law.
I'm betting if O'Reilly had been a shop teacher you'd be able to identify his students by their missing fingers.
You are a liar, a punk and a brainwashed Randinista moron without an ounce of decency and those arent even the worst things about you. GOD but you are stupid and pathetic
"Tides go in tides go out, you can't explain that..." Seriously Kindlin'?
Wages, GDP, American manufacturing, and borrowing habits were all very much different back then. Insisting that it works in today's economy is just plain stupid. We've already done the tax cuts and with each passing year there's more and more proof that they didn't work.
The above is a perfect example!
(My argument was that that historically you can see that lowering taxes has not actually created jobs over the last 30-some years. And I showed some graphs and data. Now he says since I say his argument is false, he can say my argument is false "because we live in a different time!" Way to go faux misinformation channel and billo!)
I mean, honestly, they've resorted to taking things that O'Reilly actually said and distorting them to the point that they are still things that he actually said, all while refusing to take those things out of context and instead, leaving them in the very same context in which he said them! Then they attach all these meanings to what he said even though those meanings are what he actually meant! It's just not fair to do that to a person. I feel like I'm living in that episode of the Twilight Zone where everything is correct.
Why is it that repugs are doing so much to hurt the poor, ruin the middle class and.....
Never mind. I get tired of trying to you you guys that pushing policies that kill people and take food and shelter from poor children and perpetuate racism and other forms of hate are WRONG! Do you even know what wrong and right are anymore? Sure doesn't seem like it. (I just got tired of sugar coating it....)
You have no compassion period. You also have no integrity, no decency, no humanity and no critical thinking skills. You are about the most pathetic individual ever encountered in a public place
You do plenty of namecalling yourself. You disgustingly ignorant trollscum. It isnt that you dont like namecalling what you dont like is we are better at it than you. Then again you are incredibly stupid so it reallyisnt that hard.
As for intelligence you are too stupid and mindless to even know what that is
Yes, there are indeed several posters that I can think of, right off the top of my head, that are indeed fueled by hate and nastiness on this site. Of course, unless you know of a Utopia somewhere, I imagine that such will be the case on virtually every website you go to. Indeed, while I've seen some remarkably boneheaded posters on this site, I've also seen some incredibly eloquent and insightful posters as well. They may disagree with me on issues, but they have the intellect and respect of freedom of speech and of reason to explain themselves and their viewpoints. They're even willing to debate and possibly change their viewpoints, which is something anybody and everybody should respect (but sadly not enough do).
Claiming what you did is patently false given that those posters exist. Not to mention that I've seen several examples of 'right wing' supporters that frequent this site that are nothing if not hateful and illogical themselves.
Bottom line? Spread the paint brush around buddy, because your claim could be made of many sites where people might have had bad experiences. It could also be said that every such site the claim is made against could prove that claim equally false (well, I can think of a couple of examples where that wouldn't be true, but not many) by simply referring you to some respectful post by one of its online inhabitants.
Definitely. MMfA will close up shop when Fox and other media outlets stop spewing it.
You are far too STUPID to even recognize the truth. You wouldnt know the truth if it kicked down your door and put holes in your rubber girlfriend. STUPID is the fuel that powers all of you brainwashed morons on the right
You dont deserve anything else and you dont give me anything to work with in your post aside from lies, stupidity and brainless talking points. I have a great vocabulary but why waste it on someone as stupid as YOU. Why use words you have no hope of understanding? You have the intellectual capacity of a banana peel
...but will O'Reilly praise Pres. Obama if he did?
Will O'Reilly mention that Pres. Obama wants to let states opt out of portions of the No Child Left Behind Act - Pres. Bush's woefully underfunded mandate that was "rammed down their throats?"
Can O'Reilly say anything positive about our current President?
There were eleven total responses. Eleven.
I ride the bus with teenagers doing "your mama" type jokes I'd rather respond to than someone obviously trying to get a rise out of people, and succeeding admirably. Pavlov would be proud. If there is edification in these exchanges, I have sadly missed them.
See the note below that perhaps I am "condescending, smug, [a] know-it-all and "smarmy." I haven't had such a wonderful, pithy attack on me since 1991, when a woman I was dating called to tell me that I was a self-righteous, abrasive, arrogant bastard. (All true, except the last; my parents were married at the time of my conception.)
God, I still have my edge.
However, (and here's the clincher) your posts have as little to do with the topic above as any troll, and you cause as many distractions with your obvious joy in letting others into the fascinating world of "you".
See how that works? The internet is for everyone. Let it exist on it's own terms.
If there's one thing that certain posters on here have down pat, it's trying to make sure that anything even remotely articulate or insightful that doesn't have "Republicans stink" or some variation thereof inserted into it is shouted down as being elitist, arrogant, wordy, smug, etc.
Essentially what you have is a group of people trying their best to make sure that other people are informed that 'they're not special' and that the only special ones are actually the ones informing of everybody else's non-special status. See, when you get told that you're smug and condescending, you're supposed to feel shame that you've been 'told'.
Calling people on this board dogs (the Pavlov reference, above) is hardly "insightful" or "articulate". MY post in response to the troll (further above), on the other hand, was pretty damn funny.
And if I had actually referred to people as dogs, well, the dogs I've known are much more loveable than the people I've known, so my Pavolinian statement would be a huge complement to the less desirable humans I've known. So now you can add that I am "glib, facetious and flippant" to your arsenal that I am smug, condescending, know-it-all and smarmy
What's the difference between you constantly waxing rhapsodic about yourself, and a troll? I literally cannot see the difference.
Oh, I know! The troll, at least, in some sense, knows he/she is a troll, when spouting his/her nonsense.
YOU, amazingly, think you're "helping"!
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain, a Biography
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
The dog is a gentleman; I hope to go to his heaven, not man's.
- Letter to W. D. Howells, April 2, 1899
Just FYI.
Unfortunately, condescending, smug, know-it-all posts telling people how to use the internet have also been around since it's inception, and nothing can be done about them either.
It took you longer to write your smarmy "Pavlov" post than it did to scan the eleven (gasp, eleven!) tiny comments you clucked your tongue at. What an enormous waste of time!
Hi Mr. Pot! I noticed your critique of Mr. Kettle!
It's your strawman argument that anyone is suggesting that we can eliminate the initial troll post. What can happen is that people can stop feeding the trolls.
Unfortunately, ignorant, conceited posters who can't admit to their own failings have been around since the inception of the internet, but something can be done about educating those people about the damage they do when they repeatedly reply to troll posts as though the person they're replying to is here to debate a topic fairly and with intelligence.
Literally 95 percent of the posters on here, lurker or otherwise, who know full well your history, understand fully and AGREE with what I am about to say.
You are as guilty as ANY troll on this or any other board in the history of the blessed internet with your insane, obsessive ORDERING PEOPLE AROUND ABOUT INTERNET DECORUM thing. It is so tired! And it is utterly foolish of you to think you have any command here simply because you log in more hours on this board than most.
You know what? It takes two seconds to pass by a troll's posts. But it takes so many more minutes of your life to decide to take the role of INTERNET MONITOR, and then write some self-invented rules you've decided everyone should follow.
Bottom line, when ANYONE changes the subject, like you do, or our brilliant Mr. Donzo does above, even if that post is "hey! don't change the subject!", YOU HAVE CHANGED THE SUBJECT. Deal with it.
This same thing doesn't happen on most other sites. It doesn't happen because on those sites, people have the common sense to recognize the problems that come about because of the replies to troll posts.
You are correct that the best solution would be for everyone to simply ignore the troll posts. But since that doesn't happen (some people don't recognize troll posts at all and others don't recognize them sometimes, and other people think it's okay to interact with troll posts), we're going for the next best solution.
The problem isn't that we don't know that the best solution is for troll posts to be ignored. The problem is that people like you don't get that we're using the next best solution since the first one is untenable. If people did "pass by the troll posts," we wouldn't use the methods we do to try to get them to ignore the troll posts after they've paid attention to them initially.
This thread? That was started by the brilliant Mr Donzo, above? It's as long and as distracting as any troll thread. Hell, longer.
I find it amazing that you and the brilliant Mr Donzo are SO PUT OFF by what amounts to literally seconds to a few short minutes of, gasp, extra reading! So much so, in fact, that you decide to become message board sheriffs to protect people from the horror of having to READ A LITTLE LONGER THAN THEY NORMALLY WOULD HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Good grief, who cares? You can skip it if you like. Some don't. But you two are here to HELP US poor souls, and then create gigantic, condescending, distracting threads in doing so. I find you, and the brilliant Mr Donzo, the height of both pretension and hypocrisy.
It's those of you who object to the reasonable responses which are identifying troll posts and warning people away from them who create the "long" threads. I find you to be extremely ignorant here. If you don't like being warned away from having your chain pulled by a troll, let the troll pull your chain. But you have no reason to suggest that the problem is those of us who make reasonable warnings.
Guess what? You don't have to "warn away" people from trolls, Joni! No one wants or needs you to do that for them. Also, your "identifications" and "warnings" are made under the assumption that the other thoughtful posters here have no earthly idea what a troll post looks like. That's so incredibly condescending of you!
And, to top it off, when you start a thread "warning" people away from distracting threads, you create a distracting thread.
I know you can't see that. I know you feel, deep down, that you are here doing "important" work, warning people away from an extra 30 seconds of reading. I can tell you think that by the cadence of your writing.
But trust me, you aren't.
And I disagree with you that people don't need to be warned away. And it's clear that many people miss troll posts, and fail to recognize them until they've been drawn into long, purposeless threads. I've seen a ton of times here where people have concluded that they were being trolled only after they made many replies to the troll post.
It's a fact that many people don't recognize troll posts. It's not "condescending" to be better able to recognize them than others might be.
And no, I don't create a distracting thread when I make one post. As I said above, it's those of you who then go on like you've done here who create the thread. You could chose to ignore my warning and continue to respond to the troll post. It's all on you, fool. It's all on you.
You, and others like you, who reply to trolls as though they're here to debate are the problem. Those of you who fail to recognize the troll posts and then continue to reply to them after you're warned about them are the problem. Troll posts are a problem across the internet. Some sites are really moderated to strip them of their power. Other sites, like this one, require the people who post here to moderate themselves and others.
I knew you thought you were doing valuable work. You have that vainglorious tone in your writing. "This is IMPORTANT! These people NEED me!"
If someone writes something snarky and perhaps even pretty clever (like I might have, way above) in response to an obvious troll post (yes, OBVIOUS, I do not hold with your claim that the posters here, who are smart enough to care about media misinformation, cannot spot a damn troll), it's not a "problem". It can actually be fun! There are a lot of sharp people here, who know that life can also be pretty entertaining at times. And if you don't want to read it, move on.
But you, you humorless sow, have decided to waste people's time pathetically trying to save them from...wasting their time. What a strange, wonderful, pointless world you've created for yourself!
Um, yeah it did.
How long did it take you to look it up? How long did it take for that six year old to explain the big words in the definition for you? Who would want to impress you?
You are not here for discourse or discussion. You are here to heap contempt on us to salve your inferiority complex. The thing is you are inferior. You will always BE inferior. You are astonishingly, stunningly, bone chillingly stupid.
From your snide comments about President Obama's academic background I suspect that you may be an inverted intellectual snob - a useful trait for a Knownothing. Like so many of your ilk you tend to speak with the certitude of the truly ignorant.
Go for it, Mr. President. :)
When those government employees spend their money, more cars get built to fulfill their desire for cars, and more groceries get bought, and so more cashiers are hired and food manufacturers hire people too.
I thought the top marginal rate during some of the Reagan years was 28%, 80% of the top marginal rate.
Also, we have to remember Obama cut rates by 2 percentage points for the vast majority of Americans.
For the bulk of Reagan's time in office the top rate was 50%. The 28% rate came at the end of his presidency and lip readers far and wide know how well that worked out for the guy who followed him.
This has been another episode of "Simple Answers to Stupid Questions."
We already KNOW how stupid you are. We already KNOW how brainwashed you are. Shouting the same stupid idiocy you have spewed dozens of times still doesnt make it true or right. That talking point has been shredded a few dozen times you have to be a MORON to not undestand that investment follows demand and a small tax increase will not effect that
You are a moron though. You are far too stupid to think for yourself and you KNOW that. You spew what you were told to think. Endlessly. Truth, reality, facts, these things mean nothing to you. You have Randinista dogma given you by GOD and if the facts show different too bad for the facts. I notice Clintons tax increase didnt wipe out the economy. I notice Bushs tax cuts didnt help the employment situtation. You dont care. You will keep spewing this mindless crap till the stars burn out no matter what happens to prove you wrong
When they put more money into their business, they can deduct that money from the amount on which they have to pay taxes. When you reduce the amount on which you have to pay taxes, you pay less taxes. Therefore, when you reduce taxes, you are encouraging them to take money OUT of their business and put it into their pockets. When you raise taxes, you are encouraging them to keep money in their business.
That doesn't mean that they will hire more workers. It may mean, however, that they decide this is a good time to replace the old machine with a new one, remodel the factory for better energy efficiency or invest in R&D for improvements on a product because doing those things will actually reduce their tax burden -- they deduct the expense from their taxes and may even get other incentives. All of those things provide work for other companies, which keeps people working or puts more people to work.
That, my dear, is common sense, which depends on understanding common knowledge, which you have clearly shown you don't.
http://placeitonluckydan.com/2011/03/how-popular-was-the-stimulus-bill/
http://placeitonluckydan.com/2011/03/how-popular-was-the-stimulus-bill/
http://placeitonluckydan.com/2011/03/how-popular-was-the-stimulus-bill/