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Fox Continues To Misinform About WI Anti-Union Legislation

June 16, 2011 1:26 pm ET — 28 Comments

Fox & Friends hosted Glenn Grothman, a Republican state senator from Wisconsin, to promote Wisconsin GOP Gov. Scott Walker's anti-union bill and to misleadingly suggest that the legal challenges to the bill simply involved state employees' contributions to their pensions. In fact, the controversy surrounding the bill was its intention to strip most public workers of collective bargaining rights; the unions have consistently agreed to higher pension and health care contributions.

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Carlson Allows Grothman To Misleadingly Suggest Controversial Aspects Of WI Law Pertain To Pension Contributions

Carlson Silent As Grothman Repeatedly Claimed Debate Centered On Making "State Employees Pay More For Their Pension." On the June 16 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, co-host Gretchen Carlson asked Grothman if he felt "vindicated" by a recent court ruling "because you are one who supported Governor Walker's plan." Grothman replied that "there's no question the ruling was right," and that "now the law is finally going to go into effect ... we are finally going to be able to have state employees pay more for their pension." Later, Grothman again suggested that the legal challenges and opposition to the law centered on pension contributions. From Fox & Friends:

GROTHMAN: Well, they can always appeal one more time. Hopefully they won't find another bad judge, but we are going to be -- begin implementing this law as quick as we can. And like I said, the idea that it is against the law for the Wisconsin legislature to have Wisconsin employees pay for part of their pension is absurd.

[...]

GROTHMAN: They think that it's a constitutional right [that] for the next hundred years, state employees like myself never have to contribute towards our own pensions? What a ridiculous situation.

CARLSON: One final thought is that these recalls of six Republican state senators and three Democrat senators still moving forward. What can you tell us about that?

GROTHMAN: Well, it's a scary thing for both sides, I'm sure. We had hope -- we would certainly hope for not only the good of the state, but the good of the country, that no legislators are recalled -- which is very rare in the state of Wisconsin -- in essence for saying that government employees have to pay for part of their own pension. If they are recalled, I think we have reached the tipping point in Wisconsin and the country, in which there are so many people receiving a government check that we cannot get not only the state but the national fiscal -- fiscal situation back in order. It's just going to be basically elections between those people who want to keep their full government checks right now, and those people who recognize that some government checks have to be reduced a little bit.

CARLSON: Wow. Very interesting analysis. [Fox News, Fox & Friends, 6/16/11, emphasis added]

But The Protests And Legal Challenges Centered Around The Bill's Collective Bargaining Aspects

AP: Legal Challenge Is "Against The Governor's Plan To Strip Most Public Workers Of Their Collective Bargaining Rights. A June 15 Associated Press article reported:

A coalition of Wisconsin worker rights groups is going to court to block Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill.

The groups are filing a federal lawsuit against the governor's plan to strip most public workers of their collective bargaining rights.

The groups are challenging the bill's constitutionality. The lawsuit contends the bill violates the First and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution by stripping away workers' rights to organize and bargain. [AP, 6/15/11, via FoxNews.com]

AP: Coalition "Argu[ed] That The Law Violated The U.S. Constitution By Taking Away Union Rights To Bargain." A June 16 AP article further noted:

The Supreme Court's ruling was a major victory for Republican Gov. Scott Walker, who said the law was needed to help address the state's projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall.

But the legal battle was not yet over. A coalition of unions filed a federal lawsuit on Wednesday arguing that the law violated the U.S. Constitution by taking away union rights to bargain, organize and associate and illegally discriminates among classes of public employees. The lawsuit seeks to block portions of the law taking away collective bargaining rights, but allows the higher pension and health care contributions that the unions agreed to take to move forward. [AP, 6/16/11, via Green Bay Press-Gazette]

Wisconsin AFL-CIO: "The Unions Do Not Seek To Enjoin The Pension And Health Insurance Contribution Requirements." In a June 15 statement, the Wisconsin AFL-CIO, one of the coalition members, clarified that the only portion of the bill the coalition sought to enjoin was the collective bargaining measure, pointing out that "the unions do not seek to enjoin the pension and health insurance contribution requirements." From the Wisconsin AFL-CIO:

The lawsuit seeks to enjoin some, but not all, of the provisions of the Budget Repair Bill. Significantly, the unions do not seek to enjoin the pension and health insurance contribution requirements imposed by the Budget Repair Bill. Public sector unions have made it clear from day one that Wisconsin workers would do their part to share in the sacrifice and keep our state moving forward. The lawsuit only seeks to preserve the basic right to bargain and freely associate. [Wisconsin AFL-CIO, 6/15/11]

And Union Leaders Had Already Agreed To Pension And Health Care Concessions 

AP: Unions Were Already "Willing To Accept" 8 Percent Cut In Take Home Pay. During the debate over Walker's controversial bill, Wisconsin public employee union leaders indicated that they were willing to contribute more of their salaries to health insurance and retirement benefits, which would result in a pay cut of approximately 8 percent. From the AP:

Walker's plan would allow unions representing most public employees to negotiate only for wage increases, not benefits or working conditions. Any wage increase above the Consumer Price Index would have to be approved in a referendum. Unions would face a vote of membership every year to stay formed, and workers could opt out of paying dues.

The plan would also require many public employees to cut their take home pay by about 8 percent by contributing more of their salaries toward their health insurance and retirement benefits. Union leaders said their members are willing to accept those concessions, but they will not give up their right to collectively bargain. [AP, 2/21/11, via nola.com]

Wisconsin Education Association Council President: "Public Employees Have Agreed To Governor Walker's Pension And Health Care Concessions." The New York Times reported:

Mr. Walker's plan would require government workers to put 5.8 percent of their pay into their pensions (most pay less than 1 percent now), and would require them to pay at least 12.6 percent of health care premiums (most pay about 6 percent now). Union leaders said they would go along with those plans, but they wanted to remove provisions that would prohibit collective bargaining for issues beyond wages, limit pay raises to a certain level without special approval by public referendum and require unions to hold annual votes on whether they should remain in existence.

''We have been clear -- and I will restate this again today -- money issues are off the table,'' Mary Bell, the president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council, said on Sunday. ''Public employees have agreed to Governor Walker's pension and health care concessions, which he says will solve the budget challenge.'' [The New York Times2/20/11]

AP: Unions Only Seek To "Block Portions Of The Law" Related To Collective Bargaining And "Allows The Higher Pension And Health Care Contributions ... To Move Forward." From the AP:

But the legal battle was not yet over. A coalition of unions filed a federal lawsuit on Wednesday arguing that the law violated the U.S. Constitution by taking away union rights to bargain, organize and associate and illegally discriminates among classes of public employees. The lawsuit seeks to block portions of the law taking away collective bargaining rights, but allows the higher pension and health care contributions that the unions agreed to take to move forward. [AP, 6/16/11, via Green Bay Press-Gazette]

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    • Author by n'est-ce pas (June 16, 2011 1:31 pm ET)
      7 1
      Why does this pension thing keep coming up? Pensions are part of an employee's compensation. They're nothing more than an agreement that the employee will take slighly lower wages now for an investment by the employer in a fund for their retirement. Pensions have been around for centuries, and they're certainly not paid for by the taxpayer. What the hell?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Indipendentone (June 16, 2011 1:44 pm ET)
        1 13
        In this case it is the state workers pension. Who pays their pensions? If they only pay a small part of their pension then the state picks up the rest. Where does the state get thier money, the taxpayer.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by n'est-ce pas (June 16, 2011 1:59 pm ET)
          6 1
          Wrong. There are two payments public sector workers make to their pensions. The first is called "deferred compensation," which is just money that they never see on their paycheck that the state owes them for their work. The second, called the employee contribution, also comes out of the employee's pay. This is spelled out in the collective bargaining agreements for public sector workers. Or you could read about it here. I don't expect, from you history here, that you'll do much more than try to deflect the issue, but whatever. Public employees pay for their own retirement. They earn every single dollar that goes into their pension fund.

          See, the problem with how you're trying to frame this issue is, you want to talk about wages and benefits as though they're separate. That's just not the case. TOTAL COMPENSATION is how these matters are discussed in public policy and in private industry. Employers don't talk about an employee's labor only costing their wage. A $15 an hour employee isn't viewed as such to an employer. No, the total cost of that employee's labor has to be factored in to hiring decisions, which includes health benefits, leave time, and RETIREMENT. State workers make less in total compensation than their counterparts in the private sector. So a cut in the state's pension obligation is LITERALLY a cut in pay to workers who are already making less than they could in the private sector doing the same work.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Indipendentone (June 16, 2011 2:34 pm ET)
            1 12
            All of their pay and benifits comes from the Government. Where does the Government get its money? From the taxpayer.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by BDA (June 16, 2011 2:58 pm ET)
              7 1
              All of the pay and benefits are owed to the Govt employees because they have done WORK for the taxpayers. They have EARNED that money. Why do you have such a problem with public sector people being paid a fair wage? American soldiers, Halliburton, Republican legislators, etc. get their money from the taxpayer. Do you consider that stolen money as well?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by ponymeup (June 16, 2011 7:01 pm ET)
                1 1
                Ya, go complain about the money we pay private armies. I will back you on that. Got nothin to say about Blackwater? I do.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by n'est-ce pas (June 16, 2011 3:15 pm ET)
              5 1
              By that rationale, you could enter into a contract with a roofing contractor, accept his work, and refuse to pay their fee. I mean, after all, it's your money, right?

              Public sector workers are not your slaves, they're not your pets, and they're not obligated to work for less than what they earn. So no, those aren't "taxpayer dollars" in their paychecks. That's their money. Unless you want to say that the money in your bank account actually belongs to your employer. Is that what you're saying?
              Report Abuse
            • Author by MnKevinInIL (June 16, 2011 5:45 pm ET)
              3 1
              You're independent like Paul Wellstone was independent... Why do you begrudge people who have worked hard to get a degree and sacrificed to get a masters degree in order to get paid. You think the world is going to end if someone who makes over $250k has to pay 3% more on their income above $250 but it's ok for somebody making at most 75k to basically take a 10% haircut on their pay. I want my kids to be taught to the best and brightest possible teachers. Knocking down their take home pay isn't going to help attract the best possible teachers....
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck76 (June 17, 2011 10:21 am ET)
                2 1
                Great points. But, you are asking a man who attempted to lecture about climate change and not knowing what season we are in to deal with reality. Good luck!
                Report Abuse
              • Author by wesley_fpt (June 19, 2011 1:16 pm ET)
                1  
                Aren't you paying attention to the right wing these days? The narrative is that a teacher making 50k plus benefits is a union thug bent on stealing taxpayer money and only deserves to have her pay cut by 10% or to lose her job outright, but a 3% tax increase on someone making over 250k a year is socialism and tyranny. We'll see how that plays with the voters in the Wi recalls.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by kabniel (June 16, 2011 10:25 pm ET)
              2  
              Indy

              By that specious logic the money YOU get in your paycheck is NOT YOURS. It belongs to your employer.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck76 (June 17, 2011 10:20 am ET)
              1 1
              Indy, we will assume that deflection of the actual conversation you were having about deferred compensation and pension is you admitting you were wholly incorrect and, of course, completely ill-informed on the subject. Thanks, Indy.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by wookie (June 16, 2011 2:38 pm ET)
            3 1
            And the pensions were one of many things destroyed in the market crash. The right of course isn't beating down defense contractors or giving up any congressional perks. They aren't even willing to tax the derivatives that caused the crash and the lost revenue.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by raddave43 (June 16, 2011 2:28 pm ET)
          4 1
          And who pays taxes? State workers do, so in a way they are paying their pension.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by MnKevinInIL (June 16, 2011 5:38 pm ET)
          2 1
          You sir are incorrect and you need to turn fox off for a couple of minutes and maybe turn to a more credible source for your information. The unions did what grown ups do and they compromised on the health insurance and pension contributions. Like everywhere else in the country the WI GOPs don't know how to spell or know the meaning of compromise continued with their union busting antics. Other issues that are commonly negotiated are class size and curriculum, which have an effect on how kids learn. While I don't live in WI, I do have elementary school kids so I don't want them to be in classes with 40 kids or have their books changed to those like the "flat earth types" did in Texas.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by raddave43 (June 16, 2011 10:18 pm ET)
            1  
            Kind of like when Bush was asked abou negotiating with Iran over it's nuclear program and he said the would have to give up their nuclear program before he would consider negotiating.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by ponymeup (June 16, 2011 6:56 pm ET)
          1  
          You pay taxes to receive state services idiot. If you wish to pick and choose what YOU deem necessary services, that's fine. But they are services that are needed. Why do you find it needed to point out that we pay their salaries. You pay the salary of every establishment you patronize. Quit paying for those things and they disappear. Then go whine about the state not doing the things YOU expect of them. See how that works for ya pal. Next time you go to McDonalds, tell them that you refuse to pay for the pickles that you don't like on your burger and see what they say. The fact that you don't think they are wanted or needed dismisses everyone else's opinion on priority.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mikehuck76 (June 17, 2011 10:19 am ET)
          1  
          Oh, Indy. I would explain deferred compensation to you, but it is clear you have never had a good enough job in either the private or public sector to understand such things. I hope things turn around for you.

          Not knowing the first basic ideas behind a pension is embarrassing, Indy. But, look on the bright side, it is nowhere near as embarrassing as trying to lecture about climate change when you do not even know when summer starts. That will still be our favorite idiotic ignorant statement from you.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by mmfvl (June 16, 2011 5:18 pm ET)
        8
      What the unions are upset about is the choking off of forced due collections via automatic deductions. Maybe they are afraid, or know, that they are so far removed from their member's values that they won't give the union leadership to use there money for lefty politicking!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (June 16, 2011 6:17 pm ET)
        8  
        Please do enlighten us as to what their member's values are. Seeing as how the union is the last defense against the radical right's assault on the working class I would say that the dues are a bargain.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Blue Dog (June 16, 2011 6:39 pm ET)
        3  
        It'll take too long to bring you up to speed on the facts, so I'm afraid you'll just have to settle for me calling you a dumbass.

        I wish I had more time. My work on you would be legendary.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ponymeup (June 16, 2011 6:58 pm ET)
        5  
        WTF? Are you drunk mmvfl1? I pay my dues and complain they are too high. But I pay them for the services I receive.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (June 16, 2011 7:29 pm ET)
        2  
        What, you're not gonna tell us Bill Cosby's position this time?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by kabniel (June 16, 2011 10:27 pm ET)
        1  
        MM

        You are too stupid to know what unions want or what upsets them. You are far too stupid to even PRETEND to understand anything much less union motivations. You are a brainwashed moron and thats it.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by cripto9t709 (June 17, 2011 8:40 am ET)
        2  
        "that they are so far removed from their member's values that they won't give the union leadership to use there money for lefty politicking!"

        I'm sure those fictional members would be more than happy to take a 25% cut in pay and lose all there benefits, to keep Republicans in charge.

        Here's an idea. Let the members decide if they want to bust their union, instead of the Republican Party.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by puttforever4682 (June 16, 2011 6:03 pm ET)
      5  
      Does anyone truly believe that non-organized workers will get better compensation than organized union workers. The right wing wants to destroy unions in order to pocket more money for businesses. That money goes to compensate the upper management and owners. Maybe its just jealousy by non-union workers as well.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by milcon (June 18, 2011 9:13 am ET)
        3
      Gov unions are a scam between union and politicians that work against the best interests of the taxpayer. That's why GOV unions have accumulated higher average pay and higher average benefits than that of the private sector. All the union garbage about "the working class struggle" is a load of garbage. The want to link private unions with their filthy gov union scam. The taxpayers across the nation are beginning to see just what a scam GOV unions are. This includes the teachers unions as well. They are gov owned and operated.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mjlilgui (June 18, 2011 10:35 pm ET)
        4  
        Yeah, those damn fatcat teachers. I'm 2 years removed from undergrad and making more than the average teacher, and I'm paycheck to paycheck in a below-average apartment.

        Their union sucks, to be honest. And you're dishonest for attacking them with zero facts.
        Report Abuse

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