Right-Wing Media Tout Bin Laden Death As Victory For Torture, Ignore Dispute
In the aftermath of Osama bin Laden's death, numerous right-wing media figures have insisted that the United States would never have found him without information obtained through torture. However, there is considerable dispute among experts over whether torture played a role in developing critical intelligence that led officials to bin Laden's whereabouts.
Media Conservatives Declare Victory For Torture
Hannity: "It Is Very Obvious Now That Enhanced Interrogations ... Led To The Intelligence." [Fox News, Hannity, 5/3/11, via Nexis]
Karl Rove: "We Now Know" That "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques ... Led To The Code Word, Code Name."[Fox News, Hannity, 5/3/11, via Nexis]
Wall Street Journal: Death Of Bin Laden "Looks To Be A Vindication Of Mr. Bush's Interrogation Policies." [The Wall Street Journal, 5/2/11]
Jim Hoft: "Waterboarded Terrorist Khalid Sheikh Mohammed" Gave Intel Leading To Bin Laden's Death. [Gateway Pundit, 5/2/11]
Dana Loesch: "God Bless George W. Bush For Implementing Enhanced Interrogation." [KFTK, The Dana Show, 5/2/11]
But Experts Say It's Unclear Any Key Intel Was Generated Via Torture
Senate Intelligence Committee Chair: "To The Best Of Our Knowledge," None Of The Intelligence "Came As A Result Of Harsh Interrogation Practices." From a May 3 post on TPM Muckraker:
More and more evidence suggests a key piece of intelligence -- the first link in the chain of information that led U.S. intelligence officials to Osama bin Laden -- wasn't tortured out of its source. And, indeed, that torture actually failed to produce it.
"To the best of our knowledge, based on a look, none of it came as a result of harsh interrogation practices," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee in a wide-ranging press conference.
Moreover, Feinstein added, nothing about the sequence of events that culminated in Sunday's raid vindicates the Bush-era techniques, nor their use of black sites -- secret prisons, operated by the CIA.
"Absolutely not, I do not," Feinstein said. "I happen to know a good deal about how those interrogations were conducted, and in my view nothing justifies the kind of procedures that were used." [TPM Muckraker, 5/3/11]
NSC Dismissed Efficacy Of Torture In Developing Intel On Bin Laden. The New York Times reported:
Glenn L. Carle, a retired C.I.A. officer who oversaw the interrogation of a high-level detainee in 2002, said in a phone interview Tuesday, that coercive techniques "didn't provide useful, meaningful, trustworthy information." He said that while some of his colleagues defended the measures, "everyone was deeply concerned and most felt it was un-American and did not work."
Obama administration officials, intent on celebrating Monday's successful raid, have tried to avoid reigniting a partisan battle over torture.
"The bottom line is this: If we had some kind of smoking-gun intelligence from waterboarding in 2003, we would have taken out Osama bin Laden in 2003," said Tommy Vietor, spokesman for the National Security Council. "It took years of collection and analysis from many different sources to develop the case that enabled us to identify this compound, and reach a judgment that Bin Laden was likely to be living there." [The New York Times, 5/4/11]
The New Yorker: "This Timeline Doesn't Seem To Provide A Lot Of Support For The Pro-Torture Narrative." From a May 2 post on the website of The New Yorker:
Many key details are still missing. But according to the New York Times, the turning point came when detainees being held in Guantánamo--not in the C.I.A.'s secret black-site prisons--revealed to American interrogators the pseudonym used by a key bin Laden courier, whom they also identified as a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Then, four years ago, American interrogators were able to learn the real name of the courier. It then took two more years, according to the Times, before American officials were able to piece together the geographic region in which he operated. They didn't succeed in tracking him to the suspicious compound, in which bin Laden resided, until last August.
This timeline doesn't seem to provide a lot of support for the pro-torture narrative. One would think that if so-called "enhanced interrogations" provided the magic silver bullet, and if the courier was a protégé of K.S.M.'s, then the C.I.A. might have wrapped this up back in 2003, while they were waterboarding the 9/11 mastermind a hundred and eighty-three times. Despite these contradictions and complications, the two sides on the torture debate are already off and running. [NewYorker.com, 5/2/11]
Deputy National Security Advisor: Integral Intelligence Was Not Obtained By Waterboarding "To My Knowledge." From the May 3 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:
MIKA BRZEZINSKI: So we've been talking about the different details and methods that led up to this moment, and obviously there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or a role in actually getting the information that was integral in finding Bin Laden. Is that the case?
JOHN BRENNAN: Not to my knowledge. The information that was acquired over the course of nine years or so came from many different sources: human sources, technical sources, as well as information that detainees provided. And it was something as a result of the painstaking work that the analysts did. They pieced it all together that lead us to the Abbottabad compound last year and resulted in the very successful operation on Sunday. [MSNBC, Morning Joe, 5/3/11]
CIA Director Panetta: Whether Torture Was Needed To Track Bin Laden "Is Always Going To Be An Open Question." From the May 3 edition of NBC Nightly News:
LEON PANETTA: We had a multiple source -- a multiple series of sources -- that provided information with regards to this situation. Clearly, some of it came from detainees and the interrogation of detainees. But we also had information from other sources as well. So, it's a little difficult to say it was due just to one source of information that we got.
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Turned around the other way, are you denying that waterboarding was in part among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?
PANETTA: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question. [NBC, NBC Nightly News, 5/3/11, via RealClearPolitics]
TPM: Attorney General Said "He Didn't Know" If Information Obtained Through Torture Led US To Bin Laden. From a May 3 post on TPM Muckraker:
Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday that he didn't know if any information obtained from detainees undergoing enhanced interrogation techniques lead to the killing of Osama bin Laden.
"There was a mosaic of sources that lead to the identification of the people" who lead to bin Laden, Holder told members of the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday. Pressed by Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA) on whether any information used to find bin Laden came out during enhanced interrogation, Holder said he didn't know. [TPM Muckraker, 5/3/11]
The preponderance of evidence suggests that torture played absolutely no role in the tracking down of Bin Laden at all.
But let the FOXPAC morons have their dream, it'll just show the people with any intelligence how dishonest and stupid they are
If Bush's policies got the info, then that's not a GOP victory. It makes them look incompetent.
Why does the right want to lower us down to the same level of those which we are working so hard to put down? Are we better than that or do they really want to be just the other side of the same coin.
Lets keep our heads high, stand by the beliefs that are core and not go down that dark road.
They have issues, issues they'd have all of us share in, or else.
But no. There was no evidence at all. I'd use different words than "dispute" and "unclear" when talking about something completely made up.
If torture got all this great intel over 5 years ago then why didn't the Bush team act on it? Why did they do nothing? How many servicemen died from their inaction?
Earlier this morning MMFA exposed the right wing whining about Obama supposedly taking 16 hours to make a decision. 16 hours is too long to wait to act but 5 long years is just peachy for Bush and his klan.
How bizarre the right wing has become is almost scary.
I wonder how the Pakistani families feel who lost sons looking for that schmvck.
So then, you should make good on your boast to be water-boarded for charity - you might gain some intelligence.
Oh, yeah - speaking of charity - where's the money, Sean?
If he was serious, why does he not go on on fox news, and slap hannity?
Heartless people they are, that is why.
Yet you only present one side of the arguement, so pathetic.
What is pathetic is how incredibly STUPID you are. You are like the moron who when told the Earth is round snivels that we arent giving the other side from the flat Earth society. GOD but I just cant believe what a soulless moron you are
Brainwashed MORONS like you have delusions that you are capable of higher brain function and that what YOU think matters to any rational human being. You ARE a soulless moron. That is obvious to anyone that can read
You are a LIAR. I admit I am pretty far to the left. Not partisan at all. In fact I am not even a Democrat. Why dont YOU just admit you are a mindless moron? As I have pointed out several times you are too STUPID to know where the center is. You are not center. I know soulless morons like you think anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun is a liberal. That doesnt make it so
I wonder why mmfA left the rest of the interview out?
link to article
DiFi is on the right wing of the Dem party. She and Jane Harmon have been watching for a long time.
My last point: If waterboarding KSM 183 times in 2003 was so effective, why did it not produce reliable intelligence? It's because torture NEVER produces reliable intelligence. It produces lots of talk but not reliable. When CIA and military returned to proven rapport-building interrogation n 2006 they started getting reliable information.
You are so stupid it is embarassing. We KNOW that enhanced interrogation techniques includes watherboarding. How irrelevant is THAT? You do know you are pathetic RIGHT?
You are a stupid, pathetic, vile piece of garabage. You are too stupid to know what the mainstream is.
You are a LIAR. You are also too stupid to know what I think. Were they convicted of being terrorists in court or are they SUSPECTED terrorists? I think apprehending self admitted criminals is ok. I think using deadly force to do so is allowable. If he had given up, I would expect the SEALS would have taken him alive. I would have preferred that.
Since you are such a gutless coward it seems you think violating our own values and ethical standards is just fine. You know you would be screaming bloody murder if our enemies tortured OUR men. As I said you must hold yourself, your enemies and your friends all to the same standard to even PRETEND to have morals. I get you are too stupid to understand this and that you, being the soulless moron you are dont even have a concept of decency, honor, or humanity. You have no soul. I pity you
You calling someone ELSE a moron is delicious irony. You are stupider than brass bubblegum.
We should be so lucky if our 'enemies' only used torture on our captured soldiers. They will usually just chop their heads off.
We should not torture anyone, even terrorists. It's not because they don't deserve punishment. It's because we shouldn't torture any human being.
This is actually a simple concept
Honor. Integrity. Those are gifts a person gives themselves. Also countries. You do what is right. You do what is right when it comes at a cost, when it puts you in danger, when it is inconvienient. If you only have values and morals when there is no cost you dont HAVE them at all.
The rightwing demands that our country be seen and treated like we are the epitome of an honorable country at the same time they demand we act WITHOUT honor. I am not sure this is because they are so ignorant or because they are cowards or if they just have no concept of honor
There has been an endless parade of former (and current) intel people making the rounds on the talk shows, people with first-hand knowledge (UNLIKE Rumsfeldt) who say over and over that it does not work, did not work. They have also explained how haphazard the intel units were under Bush and for the past few years they are working as a cohesive unit which brought about.... RESULTS.
No matter what his guests say, he shuts them up and makes his own pre-conceived proclamation... on any issue.
MMFA spends far too much web-space on this idiotic uneducated fool.
Oh yeah, what is the liberal thinking regarding OBL and his crew using their spouses as human shields? To me it proves just how immoral and cowardly these people are. You people do have a problem with this, right?
While I won't speak for all liberals, I believe OBL using human shields is the typical cowardly behavior of a terrorist.
If it's been proven, post a link to the proof. I triple-dog dare you!
You'll be waiting for a while since he can't prove that torture led to OBL and he can't prove that OBL used a woman as a shield. In fact, it's beginning to look like he DIDN'T use a woman to shield himself.
Probably just another Jack Bauer RWA conservative chickenhawk wannabe hero.
Are you sure his real screen name is missing the first name of "Abbie"?
What a bunch of soulless, LIARS and morons the right has become.
Can we admit the truth here? ConservaTARDS have become a bunch of gutless cowards. They dont CARE if torture is effective, they dont CARE if its evil. It makes them feel better in their cowardly hearts.
By the way Moronguy no such thing has been PROVEN it has been claimed. Those two things are not the same. GOD but you are stupid. Waterboarding IS torture this was never even disputed when we were putting Japanese officers in PRISON for doing it, when it was used during the Spanish inquisitions, only when gutless cowards like YOU needed to FEEL safer, not BE safer just FEEL better knowing someone was being tortured. You are officiallly so pathetic you have no humanity.
I would say if killing cooking and eating one hundred babies saved thousands of lives then NOT killing cooking and eating babies would be torture. Why wouldnt you kill, cook and eat those babies, from some sense of moral superiority? My GOD but you are stupid.
It is what I would expect from cowards like them and frankly like you. The only difference between a soulless, cretin without even a concept of decency and integrity like YOU and Ben Laden is that YOU are too much of a gutless coward to cause the suffering and death you crave in your heart.
No I have no problem with that. I just think you are just like that yourself
Never how many times have you had someone remind you to breathe. I am shocked you can feed yourself as pathetically stupid as you are.
You define weak. You drop by tell lies, spew the stupid you were brainwashed with and think you are clever. Let me clue you in. You are not clever. You are stupid. You are pathetic. If you went to grade school at all and are not seven then you are simply retarded. You call that pitiful snippet a zinger? I was embarassed for you. Will you ever stop humiliating yourself? By the way patting yourself on the back and PRETENDING you are clever only makes you look more pathetic than you have already shown yourself to be. Now THAT is a bit of a feat.
PROVEN? WHEN and BUY WHOM?....YOU?
Well I'll take THIS guys word over any coming from the loony right!
Today, Glenn Carle — who served 23 years in the CIA’s Directorate of Operations and for a time led the interrogation of a high value detainee — told ThinkProgress that if it the answer is yes, the right-wing will use that and say, “See torture works.” While Carle said it’s possible that EITs might provide information, that doesn’t mean they should ever be used:
CARLE: Well I change the tense and say not that they will use that but that they are using that within I think four hours of the announcement that bin Laden’s death.
Ultimately you get to an ends means debate. … The ends does not justify the means and you don’t build a policy, in this instance with regard to acceptable legal procedures, based upon the hypothetical, theoretical case which is five or ten standard deviations from the norm which happens one time in 5 million. What you do is you base your policies on an ever-changing calculus of probability likelihood and what is considered liked and works. And the answer to all of those questions should quite clearly exclude EITs. Is it possible that a specific piece of information from time to time would come from EITs? The answer is yes. To be fair the answer is yes. Does it justify using them? A categorical flat no.
Carle also said that during his time at CIA, “almost all the information obtained from EITs was recalled…because it was viewed as unreliable.”
To claim moral superiority? - abnormal
God forbid we live our lives as moral beings. Amoral beings are inhuman, genius.
"What a joke. In my book you are immoral if you DON'T use waterboarding." - abnormal
Wow. Once again, how sheltered a life must you have lived to actually write such nonsense?
PS, Six CIA executives have now confirmed WB assisted in finding OBL. Not that facts would ever matter to the far left. Nah, emotions is what counts! (And semantics for mikey.)
That is disputed. You are too stupid to even know what a fact is. For instance a CLAIM is not a fact. Morality, honor, integrity. These things count. As I said earlier. Pathetic brainwashed morons like you demand the US is SEEN and TREATED as the most honorable of countries at the same time, because of your cowardice, you throw fits that we act dishonorably. If you only do what is right when it is easy, if you only have morals and values when they cost nothing. You dont have them at all. I am sure between your vast stupidity and your total lack of honor, decency and integrity you will not understand this. Lets be honest you never understood those Dick and Jane books did you?
Hey POS - you do realize people were tried after WWII for waterboarding americans, right?
Again with the 'effin' lies!
You have no moral authority. You have no high horse. You have no decency, no integrity, no humanity and frankly no soul
I see - you are worried about profanity from me - but not the outrageous lies you posted? Lying POS a-hole is more accurate for you.
That doesn't mean that torture was necessary. In fact, normal interrogation techniques are proven to be better at gathering info than torture is. Unless it's proven that we could have only gotten that info via torture (and that can never be proven), it can't ever be "proven" that waterboarding (torture) was necessary to get rid of Osama.
Why are the Israelis so stupid? They don't use water boarding.
He portrays any speculation that fits his narrative as gospel truth.
The original info came from a Gitmo detainee, some prisoners were tortured at Gitmo, the right wing supports torture, therefore the info MUST have come about from torture according to Sean's feeble minded attempt at logic.