Sarah Pavlus
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Media Matters: The Fox News divide that never was

December 17, 2010 5:59 pm ET

The internal divisions at Fox News are notorious. There is the Fox News primary, in which no fewer than five potential Republican presidential candidates and their varied supporters and detractors -- all on the Fox News payroll -- duke it out on a near-daily basis.

There are typical ego-driven competitions between on-air personalities, and an increasingly public divide at the network over dangerously unhinged host Glenn Beck.

But there is one divide that -- contrary to the insistence of Fox News executives -- simply does not exist: the one between its "news" and "opinion" shows.

Last year, The New York Times reported, "Fox argues that its news hours -- 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. and 6 to 8 p.m. on weekdays -- are objective," and quoted Michael Clemente, the channel's senior vice president for news, as saying: "The average consumer certainly knows the difference between the A section of the newspaper and the editorial page."

This is apparently an argument that works only on the very gullible, and on advertisers who want to pretend that by confining their ad buys to the channel's "news hours" they are not financially supporting very damaging conservative lies and smears.

How telling it will be to see who attempts to maintain this charade, now that Media Matters has published internal emails from Fox News Washington managing editor Bill Sammon to his news staff directing them to call into question indisputable scientific facts in Fox's climate change reporting, and eschew "public option" for variations of "government option" in Fox's health care reform reporting, echoing advice from a prominent Republican pollster on how to help turn the public against reform.

The recently-released emails confirm what sources told Media Matters months ago: Pressure on Fox News journalists to "distort" straight reporting comes right from the top.

In October, one source with knowledge of the situation explained: "[There is] more pressure from Sammon to slant news to the right or to tell people how to report news, doing it in a more brutish way. A lot of the reporters are conservative and are glad to pick up news. But there is a point at which it is no longer reporting, but distorting things. ... [I]f you come in to say, 'ignore points of view and ignore facts,' then you are straying away from being a legitimate news reporter."

The problem, of course, is not just that the reporting on Fox News is wildly dishonest -- after all, a supermarket tabloid can be wildly dishonest, too -- it's that the lies and smears on Fox News have very real policy implications.

For example, following the release of Sammon's email ordering his news staff to cast doubt on climate science, Zoe Tcholak-Antitch, vice-president of the Carbon Disclosure Project, told Media Matters: "It is very disturbing to hear of this e-mail because it just goes further to sow seeds of doubt among the American population then makes it more difficult for the politicians to stand up for any type of legislation on climate change if they want to get elected."

Tcholak-Antitch added: "It obviously does have an impact on the American public. We are facing an issue that needs to be dealt with in a timely fashion. The danger is that this delays action. While it exists, it delays action and it hinders politicians from passing laws and regulations that will help a clean energy economy and create jobs for American people."

The irony is that News Corp. -- Fox News' parent company and (the blind eye it turns towards Fox notwithstanding) a recognized corporate leader in raising climate change awareness -- cites Tcholak-Antitch's Carbon Disclosure Project as an expert resource on the issue.

New York Congressman John Hall -- a Democratic member of the House global warming committee -- called Sammon's email "regrettable" and warned about the effects this sort of "slanted" coverage has on legislation:

The window of time we have left for action to prevent the worst case scenario may still be closing. ... We can't afford to waste two years if the changes are already happening. It is really important that the public gets educated. I do think Congress responds to public pressure. If the public is being misinformed, we have very little chance of reversing the trend.

Similarly, after Media Matters released Sammon's "government option" email, health care reform advocate Health Care for America Now issued a statement saying: "At a time when right-wing extremists were trying to make the case that the health care reform bill was a government takeover plot, Fox News incorporated politically charged language into its day-to-day reporting to mislead its audience into thinking the public option was something that it wasn't."

Indeed, the Pulitzer Prize-winning PolitiFact announced this week that its "Lie of the Year" is the false claim that the health care reform law is "a government takeover of health care." And yet, Fox News' "objective" reporters were ordered to play directly into that damaging narrative.

To be sure, many advertisers have taken a step in the right direction by refusing to support some of Fox News' deplorable "opinion" and "entertainment" shows -- after all, who wants to drag a hard-earned (and valuable) brand identity through the mud by associating it with people who call the president racist, or repeatedly claim "all terrorists are Muslim," or promote anti-Semites, or engage in bizarre conspiracy theories?

In fact, just this week, Omaha Steaks pulled its ads from Beck's show, joining a growing list of over 100 advertisers that have done the same.

But while that may mean that Fox is forced to air "Foundation for a Better Life" commercials -- courtesy of conservative Philip Anschutz -- five times in a row during Beck's show, it doesn't stop advertisers from subsidizing the lies on dozens of other Fox programs.

When asked several months ago about the Beck advertising boycott, Rupert Murdoch claimed, "We have not lost any business at all; some [advertisers] may have moved to other programs," but "it has not affected the total revenues or the profits."

Last year, Paul Rittenberg, a Fox advertising executive, made the same point to the Times. The Beck boycott "caus[ed] headaches" for Rittenberg's team, the Times reported, but "he said Fox 'hasn't lost a dime' because the ads were moved to different hours" -- presumably hours filled with so-called "objective" news reports that skittish advertisers thought were safely non-controversial.

A year ago, these advertisers may have been able to take false comfort in the Fox News canard that there exists any sort of division between Fox news and Fox opinion programming, but with the release of the Sammon emails, how long will they keep kidding themselves?

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
      • Author by Maimon (December 17, 2010 8:54 pm ET)
        25 1
        Most news on Fox is really GOP talking points inserted into stories.

        If they talk about global warming they start promoting the "wedge" arguement. " Well, you know that alot of scientists disagree with climate change" The reality is scientists are seldom if ever unanimous in their view. The predominant school of thought is we are affecting global climate; there is a small group that really is questioning the models, but not necessarily the conclusion.

        If Fox mentions Healthcare, they want to promote how President Obama is a " radical socialist" and how it is a takeover of the healthcare system. Remember death panels? The point is we only had" Health Insurance" reform.

        They talk about how great the Reagan years were. But they omit things like the debt Reagan incured,the terrorist attack against the Marines in Lebanon or how Oliver violated this countries laws to supply a terrorist group in the name of " Freedom".

        They love to talk tough on Fox news." We should bomb Iran". But most of the pundits are chicken hawks.

        When they bring up DADT, the homophobia comes out. " How will this affect our troups. Is this going to affect the combat readiness of our country ?"

        Fox is " Propatainment". It is used to spread fear and ignorance.They are masters of logocide. Words have new meanings when they use them.
        Fascists are leftwing people, eventhough fascism is rightwing movement. Nazis are people who don't agree with them, not rigth-wing racial purists. Communists and marxists are anyone who beleives in" social justice" Racists are anyone who is not a WASP. Freedom is absolute blind faith in your Republican representative. Liberty is being allowed to call a homosexual a F#g in the name of your religion.

        They are the " Lords of Illusion". We really need to challenge them.


        Rant done.....

        Report Abuse
    • Author by highlyunlikely (December 17, 2010 7:20 pm ET)
      7  
      To answer a rhetorical question, I think they "will keep kidding themselves" as long as it remains profitable to advertise on the other programs, or at least those in the so-called straight news category. Ethical considerations go only so far and what they can't rationalize as a "fair and balanced" approach to the FOX dilemma will be relegated to the cognitive dissonance section of their brains.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Meremark (December 17, 2010 8:50 pm ET)
      8 1
      -

      FOX could lose ALL advertisers and then go on making BILLION$ FROM Cable TV SUBSCRIBERS.

      Every month 100 million cable TV subscribers pay FOX a dollar for being in the channels bundle coming in the home using television -- NO MATTER if they watch FOX or not, NO MATTER if the TV IS ON or not, if they're even home or not, if they care or not: PAY FOX.
      (In fact it is more than a dollar and it is more than 100 million.)

      Murdoch LAUGHS at criticism of his propaganda puke. Because the critics PAY FOX every month.
      Murdoch LAUGHS at advertiser boycotts. Cable TV subscribers PAY FOX.
      Everyone shouting SHAME! at Murdoch then PAYS FOX hundreds millions dollars, every month, and Murdoch takes the money and gives it to rightwing Republican financing. That's where the rightwing fascism came from -- cable TV subscribers.

      The irony of it is that We, the People can stop it when we decide to BOYCOTT Cable TV.
      And Murdoch and advertisers and police could not stop us. Bankrupt FOX. BOYCOTT CABLE TV.

      -


      Report Abuse
      • Author by stefiz (December 17, 2010 11:14 pm ET)
        6  
        but...True Blood!
        ~hangs head in shame~
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mollyboris (December 19, 2010 9:54 am ET)
        1 1
        Why are people afraid of differing opinions, different perspectives, different sources of news? What are you scared of?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Maimon (December 19, 2010 7:19 pm ET)
          1
        Don't forget Murdoch dropped BBC news in China at the behest of the Chiness authorities. BBC had done many less than positive reports on human rights and working conditions in China.

        Murdoch wants money. He would drop Fox in a heart beat if the price was right.

        "Pulls out hat and passes it around"
        Report Abuse
    • Author by pointofview (December 17, 2010 11:32 pm ET)
      2 28
      What a bunch of CRAP!!

      Firt off, calling the health plan a goverment option is in FACT more accurate than calling it a public option. Does the "public" run or manage this health plan, or does the Govt?

      Second, there is much left to debate on the climate change issue. There is no crime in presenting the opposing view.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by T.M. Finney (December 18, 2010 1:38 am ET)
        28 2
        "What a bunch of CRAP!!"
        Yes, your argument is.

        "Firt off, calling the health plan a goverment option is in FACT more accurate than calling it a public option. Does the "public" run or manage this health plan, or does the Govt?"

        No, it isn't, as noted by many different fact-check organizations, including FactCheck.Org:
        http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/government-run-health-care/
        And the whole "government takeover" nonsense was rightfully called the lie of the year:
        http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/lie-year-government-takeover-health-care/

        These are just carefully chosen terms of propaganda. That's all.
        There was never a "government option," which would have been something akin to single-payer, on the table. This plan is administered by private companies. The government's role is mostly oversight.


        "Second, there is much left to debate on the climate change issue. There is no crime in presenting the opposing view."
        No, again, there is no real debate. There is only propaganda from scientists paid by corporations, or straight propaganda from the corporations themselves. The last ten years were the hottest decade on record. 2010 will be THE hottest year on record. One of the main causes of the temperature increases is man-made pollution. These are not debatable facts. There are debates within the factual parameters, but not within the parameters of the right-wing/corporate noise machine.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by eb (December 18, 2010 11:39 am ET)
        16  
        Firt off, calling the health plan a goverment option is in FACT more accurate than calling it a public option. Does the "public" run or manage this health plan, or does the Govt?

        Our current health care system and our reformed one should be called a corporate run health care system because it is governed by corporate organizations that have an authoritarian structure. In the past it was realized that in order for such a system to function at all, it needed regulation and oversight by our democratically elected representative government. Thus currently we have the public, through our representatives, placing some boundaries around the authoritarian, profit based governance of our health care. The coaches need to listen to the referees from time to time.

        Second, there is much left to debate on the climate change issue. There is no crime in presenting the opposing view.

        Well lets be honest about what that opposing view to climate change is. I would summarize it this way: Don't listen to the biased and corrupt climate scientist, no matter how much evidence they present, instead trust the lobbyist for the industries that have the most too lose by being responsible. Also trust the politicians whose ideologies are compromised by the idea that civilization can harm the planet rather than those who are asking anyone to sacrifice anything for the common good and for future generations.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ilikeike (December 18, 2010 7:00 pm ET)
        8  
        theres no crime in it ,but theres also no truth in the claim they constantly push, that it hasnt met the standard of proof. the climate change theory has far surpassed the standards of proof generally necessary for scientific consensus. of course this is a network where many of the hosts and guests still say evolution is just a theory
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        • Author by fo3angels (December 18, 2010 9:07 pm ET)
          4  
          Well, technically, I think evolution IS still just a theory, rather than a law. Then again, my definition of the term theory in this case has a far different meaning than theirs, given how they throw around their theory that President Obama is not a native born citizen when that theory has been scientifically disproven.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by ilikeike (December 19, 2010 2:28 am ET)
            3 1
            you may know more than i re evolution. i rely on what i have read but more so on the fact that people who have devoted their lives to its study almost universally agree that it is proven fact. you are certainly justified in considering that some further proof may arise which throws the theory of evolution into dispute. i myself dont believe that will ever happen,but im no expert
            Report Abuse
            • Author by fo3angels (December 19, 2010 8:46 pm ET)
              2  
              Oh, I don't believe it will ever happen, and I do believe that evolution is both a scientific theory and a layperson fact. I was just, basically, pointing out that for most people, "theory" is a hunch that has little support in the realm of logic or evidence - in other words, something with less standing than even an educated guess.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Maimon (December 19, 2010 12:15 pm ET)
            6  
            Well if you haven't noticed, in science they have not dubbed anything a "LAW" in science in a long time. I think they almost exclusively use the term " Scientific theory" in the current scientific community.

            In my opinion, they stopped using the term LAW because science always leaves room for change. A Law is or was considered absolute. I think if Newton were to have "discovered" gravity today they would called it, " The Theory of Gravity".

            Theory and scientific theory are two different things entirely.

            Theory: Watching Fox cold damage your brain. This is more of an opinion.

            Scientific theory: smashing some atoms= atomic theory.
            This can be reproduced, quantified and then falsified.Then it is reviewed and all kinds of attempts to disprove this are tried. Eventually, if is a real scientific theory, it will generally be accepted by most of the scientific community.

            That is why i find it funny to hear conservatives say" Well, you know some scientists disagree" or" Well is that Soudn Science?". This is a GOP code for "well I have some lobbyist that are paying me to challenge this".

            The great thing about science is if it is fake or biased it will be discovered by the scientific community.

            If only politics worked like this!!!

            Report Abuse
            • Author by fo3angels (December 19, 2010 8:52 pm ET)
              4 2
              You bring up an interesting point, maimon, wrt to <cringe> Fox and brain damage. While I concede that it is opinion, I think it is reasonable to suggest that a case could be made that watching them DOES cause brain damage. Either that, or that there exists brain damage or other structural deficit which results in a predisposition to accept what is spewed by them. The problem I have would be in setting up the experiment, especially in a repeatable way (as all theories must both be repicable and disprovable) because I have compassion for every person - even when they are people I would otherwise avoid associating with.
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      • Author by fo3angels (December 18, 2010 9:04 pm ET)
        7  
        POV, there is no accuracy in calling it a government option. Medicaid, Medicare, Tricare, those are government options. What was proposed is nothing like any of those. The public would, indeed, have run the plan, since it would have been private companies that were the source.

        As for the climate change issue, when did we open debate on whether 2+3=5? How can there be an opposing view to facts and evidence, particularly when (as is the case with climate change) decades of data show a consistent and disturbing increase in the global average temperature? What is to oppose? Or is your opposing view regarding who or what is the cause of the increase in temperature, rather than whether the increase is happening? If that is the case, present it as such, because that is something we can discuss. Personally, I don't know to what extent humans and our activity are responsible for the average increase in global temperature. What I do know is that we humans DO have the creativity, intelligence, and (at least some of us) the intestinal fortitude to do what it takes to mitigate our impact on the environment - and as good stewards of this planet, it is our personal responsibility to do what we can even if it costs a little extra to do so.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by vysotsky (December 19, 2010 2:01 pm ET)
        10  
        "Firt off, calling the health plan a goverment option is in FACT more accurate than calling it a public option."


        More accurate? The distinction between "public" and "private" is infamously shifty and has been the subject of more than a little research and theorization in the field of sociolinguistics, linguistic anthropology and sociology. What all of these studies do tend to agree on, though, is that the meaning of the word "public" depends especially upon the context of its use. This context dependency is not terribly unusual, and doesn't result inherently in much confusion for people. People know recognize that the "public" in "public utility" refers to a different kind of public than that implied by "publicly traded company."

        "Does the "public" run or manage this health plan, or does the Govt?"

        "This health plan" is as public as a public park, a public library, a public school, etc.... All of these have been called "public" for good reason. It was a rather famous Republican president who characterized our form of government as "government of the people, by the people, for the people", so it makes perfect sense to call such services public.

        Unless, of course, you're trying to advance the position that government is actually the enemy of the people, that "we" need to "take back our country". Then, of course, replacing the word "public" in these contexts with "government" is ideologically productive for you.

        But at no point is this a question of accuracy.

        "Second, there is much left to debate on the climate change issue. There is no crime in presenting the opposing view."

        If there's no crime in presenting the opposing view, then shall we debate whether or not the Earth is flat as well? There will always be an opposing view, and usually very many distinct opposing views. Opposition alone is not justification for journalistic coverage.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (December 20, 2010 8:59 am ET)
        3  
        One of those poor demented fools who watches Fox and believes the CRAP that they spew is fact. You know, POV, the recent study showed that people like you are the most misinformed in the country, which, of course, makes you the most uniformed.

        Get out more.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by dbill (December 18, 2010 1:18 am ET)
      1 1
      Is media matters agaisnt freedom of speech? If you dont like fox news, change the channel. Whats more scary, someone trying to silence a dissenting opinion or someone expressing a dissenting opinion? Good thing America has mediamatters to tell us dumb americans what to watch.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by David2012 (December 18, 2010 5:40 am ET)
      9 2
      No one who appears on Fox News for pay is a journalist. No one. Not Mara Liasson, not Juan Williams, no one. They work for Roger Ailes, and their job, in the end, is to advance his point of view. The whole operation is a caricature of journalism.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ilikeike (December 18, 2010 7:01 pm ET)
        2  
        thats not true,they do allow a few token moderates on,and claimthey are liberals
        Report Abuse
      • Author by yoiksaway (December 19, 2010 10:06 am ET)
        2  
        FN, where journalism goes to die. Sad to see Mara Liasson there, working on Skid Row. Williams I kind of expected, but her...it's even worse for those two and others like them that used to have scruples, because being irrelevant on an irrelevant network must be the pits. Except for the money.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Martinking68 (December 18, 2010 9:57 am ET)
        13  
        Yours is a typical fox news/right wing response. Instead of attacking the facts Pavlus presents, you attack Pavlus herself. That is logical fallacy.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by GreenLantern (December 18, 2010 11:45 am ET)
          12  
          Alright, 1mental, way to refute the facts of the article!
          Your counterpoints were incisive and I love all the sources and facts you shared?

          I guess all that was left was to comment on her looks, you forgot your hate-wing training and left that out.......
          Ugh.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by David2012 (December 18, 2010 11:50 am ET)
            10  
            Or maybe talk about how her voice grates on you, or make fun of her name, maybe misspell it, call her Pavlov, or something.

            "Miiiissssss" is a good start. Build on it.

            You must not intend to be taken seriously.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by onementalgiant (December 18, 2010 1:08 pm ET)
              2 13
              "Or maybe talk about how her voice grates on you, or make fun of her name, maybe misspell it, call her Pavlov, or something."

              Coming from those who have called my onementalgiant screen name everything bad fathomable I'll be sure to listen to you kind folks. You people are morally superior to any and all RWW's. Says so in bintx's owners manual on page 13.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by GreenLantern (December 18, 2010 1:47 pm ET)
                15 1
                I don't post here a lot but I know that many are trying to be funny when they make fun of the "mengiant name". I have not seen too many GL funny names so far but I won't get insulted by it, given the anonymity of posting on a Bulletin board. (THAT shows my age..... :)
                I just think it is pretty bad that there is something happening to our world that can be at least mitigated if not reversed that could lead to the deaths of millions or perhaps even billions in the worst case scenarios and the "hate-wing" is actually doing everything in it's power to prevent us from taking quick, decisive action to try to help prevent it. Seemingly just because they HATE Al Gore!
                I have been recycling for more then 20 years, composting when possible, and doing everything I can to lower my footprint, yet I witness many MANY so-called Christians doing everything they can to pollute MORE! Just to prove Al Gore wrong!
                It is shameful, and people that fall for the bile that is "faux news?" should be ashamed of themselves and from most posters from the "right" seem to not only eat it up, but actually perpetuate and increase it in their daily lives. When you post an "all you high left-wingers, taking from the govt dole" do you realize that there is no serious conversation that can ever come of that? Just like no one can negotiate with a "Nazi/Socialist/Communist/Librul/Fascist/non-citizen president? This post is about how harmful your marching orders from faux that you seem to do in LOCK-STEP are harming your fellow citizens, your country, and YOUR WORLD. (And MY Grandchildren will suffer greatly for it!) I know I will never change your mind with facts and reality but c'mon! Insulting a woman writer? Picking on a woman? (That shows YOUR character to me....)
                Report Abuse
                • Author by anitamurie (December 18, 2010 2:54 pm ET)
                  12  
                  What a perfect reply to a very immature rant by onementalgiant, who obviously had his feelings hurt by those making fun of his screen name. I too am very concerned by the pettiness of Faux and it's viewers. I often wonder if they have any children or grandchildren, how even the possibility of climate change doesn't disturb them.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by ilikeike (December 18, 2010 7:12 pm ET)
                  3  
                  my sister,who is a very intelligent phychiatric nurse at a major regional medical centre, is also a fox news fan. she is a lovely person but she thinks, having heard it from rush or fox, that recycling is all a feel good scam. she saw a recycling truck driving towards the trash collection site,and is convinced they just dump it into the general garbage stream.even though we have several recycling centres in our community. apparently she must think they are for show.i tried to explain to her that they share facilities and trucks and personnell etc, but ,and remember she is a very bright, thoughtful person,has her fears and prejudices confirmed by these buffoons every time she watches them and doesnt care to think any farther than that
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 10:53 am ET)
                    1 9
                    This is in response to GL, anit, and ilike. Incredibly, I can take on all three of you with half my brain tied behind my back (phrase courtesy of Rush).

                    I recycle as much or more than most liberals. I know this because I lived in So. Ca and was surrounded by them. I built my own compost container 30 years ago where I dutifully dumped my grass clippings every week. We always recycled everything - including every scrape of paper. Not only this, we camped out a lot when the kids were growing up and our policy was to leave every camp sight CLEANER then when we got there. This included picking up every cigarette butt others had smoked. So no need for lectures on the value of recycling or the risk of MAN-MADE catastrophic global warming (or is it called climate change now - you pick the most disturbing term). Here's the deal on global warming: Man is NOT the primary cause of it. Period. One seismic event by Mother Nature such as a volcano can be and HAS BEEN bigger in terms of pollution then ALL of man kind since the Industrial Revolution. Then what happens is Mother Nature cleans herself up over time. Happens all the time. Don't any of you remember 20 or so years ago your financial driven leftist scientists (filling their pockets with our gullible $$$) frantically forecasting Global Cooling? As to the slight deviations in climate change year to year or decade to decade this is also a normal function of planet Earth. This is primarily caused by that big bright yellow star in our sky.

                    Al Gore is a dirty rotten scoundrel for bilking so many of you naive folks out of cash to line his pockets. His motivation is MONEY. He is like a BILLIONARE (that's $1,000 MILLION) - thanks to fooling the foolish. Al Gore will burn in Hell for what he is doing. Mark my words on this. The four of us will never see him Up There!

                    And yes I have grandkids. Nine in fact and the least of my worries is the ecological viability of our planet. They need to be worried about surviving the catastrophic liberal policies shoved down our throats by the three stooges of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid during the last couple years. What this trio has done in two short years has been horrible. Name one thing they have done to help America! AG Holder is a complete joke. Did you hear about him going to court to help some Muslim woman teacher who wants all of December off for her religion? Yeah. That's right. Let's make sure EVERY teacher gets December off. That'll help our grandkids, huh?

                    Last, I really don't get offended with anyone making fun of my screen name. No biggie. In fact, I picked it knowing I'd get some grief over it. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy liberals so often display when they called me out for making fun of the MMFA writer.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Maimon (December 19, 2010 12:50 pm ET)
                      10  
                      What is worse Al Gore getting rich by by investing in efficient, alterantive energy or Rush or Beck getting rich by spreading political and racial fear? Maybe the Bushs and Cheneys getting rich on wars is better???

                      Secondly, you claim he is worth a Bilion ? The highest estimate I was able to find was he was personally worth $100 million. This was was in 2008. Just so you know the richest member of Congress is a republican worth $350 million

                      Gore donated all proceeds from his book " An Inconvient Truth " to a company to make a film about climate change.

                      Volcanic erruptions do put CO2 into air, but it is distinguiable and tends not to be suspendid aslong in the atmostphere.

                      Man does have an impact on its environment, like any organism that goes unchecked. The biggest filters for the planet i.e. forests and oceans are impacted by our presence. We have fewer trees to process the carbon and the oceans water is becoming more acidic and therefore less able to sustain most current species.

                      And Hell is imaginary...meant to scare people. It didn't even exist in early Judaims. Sheol was limbo. Like many things in Christianity and other religions it was borrowed. Hades, Gehenna are the sources for Christian hell.

                      Also, so you know Satan, he's not real either. It comes from the hebrew word" shytan" meaning obstacle. It became personafied after the Babylonian captivity were the Jews borrowed the idea of angels and demons from their captors.

                      Fooling the foolish?. I think you should grab a mirror. Bush lied and took your freedoms with the Patriot Act. Bush Sr. is a member of the Carlyle Group and made a fortune on the wars. Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby outed a CIA agent which is technically TREASON. Ronald Reagan let Oliver North engage in illegal activity to subvert the constitution. Nixon used Liddy to do the same.

                      I think you drank very deeply when they handed out the Kool-aid .
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 3:11 pm ET)
                        1 7
                        I'm gonna skip replying to you Mamon because you're a joke. Any person who buys into what Gore is selling is not worth debating.

                        I will remind you of how much he cave to charity on his tax returns which he was finally shamed into disclosing back in the 1990's. Something like 0.001% or about $300.00 bucks a year on income of mid six figures. Yeah, he's a real gift giver. Recommend you stop boasting about his charitable work. Even more folks will discount everything you say based on bragging on Albert Gore. BTW, has he officially dumped his wife yet? Last I heard he was spending a decent portion of his carbon credit cash on call girls. 2BTW, I would never trust a man stupid enough to look down the barrel of a loaded rifle like he did while in his cushy VN gig. Did you see that picture? Things would be a lot better if the rifle had - never mind. Better not say this......
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Maimon (December 19, 2010 7:34 pm ET)
                          7  
                          LMAO...you are funny.

                          Maybe he is like Newt , you know tells his first wife he wants a divorce while she is in hospital. Then doesn't pay any support. Then cheats on his second wife with an intern while he accuse Clinton of being shameful?

                          Or mayabe he is like Rush you know the Hill Billy Heroine cowboy. What wife is he working on ???

                          Or maybe he is like the tough talking Ronald Reagan or John Wayne. You know the two tough guys that ducked out on military service?

                          I do find it funny that you needed to make it personal.

                          You can not discount the truth...what did I say that was FACTUALLY untrue???

                          You claim Gore was worth a billion and he is not.

                          You claim that gloabal warmin/ climate change was somehow discredited because of volcanic erruptions, this is not true. Volcanic erruptions are accounted for in all the models.

                          I think you are simply unhappy that your view is based on misinformation. No one likes to have their views called out. But you should live by this motto " Adapt and overcome"

                          I still like you :)
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by Johaely (December 19, 2010 12:52 pm ET)
                      7  
                      Quoitng Rush in anything except being sexist, racist or an a$$ho|e is never bound to help your argument in any way.

                      recycle as much or more than most liberals. I know this because I lived in So. Ca and was surrounded by them. I built my own compost container 30 years ago where I dutifully dumped my grass clippings every week. We always recycled everything - including every scrape of paper. Not only this, we camped out a lot when the kids were growing up and our policy was to leave every camp sight CLEANER then when we got there. This included picking up every cigarette butt others had smoked.


                      Congrats, you are a good steward to the environment.

                      So no need for lectures on the value of recycling or the risk of MAN-MADE catastrophic global warming (or is it called climate change now - you pick the most disturbing term).


                      The term climate change came from Frank Luntz. He suggested Republicans to use that term so as to sway opinion and you and many others are proof that it worked. Now scientist use the term because of the need to make it more clear to people how global warming works: When a part of the world warms, it'll affect the climate of other parts. If the poles warm, the cold air currents will move South/North and lower the temperatures of the landmass (Colder winters). Warmer climates also affect things like animals' and plants' natural cycles. At the moment i'm studying in Upstate New York near the great lakes and the Geese did not migrate until early December. Their normal dates should be late October the latest.

                      Here's the deal on global warming: Man is NOT the primary cause of it. Period.


                      The level of scientific research you did ther should earn you the Nobel Prize for Science. I'm serious.

                      One seismic event by Mother Nature such as a volcano can be and HAS BEEN bigger in terms of pollution then ALL of man kind since the Industrial Revolution.


                      Ok you are stupid.

                      Then what happens is Mother Nature cleans herself up over time. Happens all the time.


                      Yep, after a large amount of life dies.

                      Don't any of you remember 20 or so years ago your financial driven leftist scientists (filling their pockets with our gullible $$$) frantically forecasting Global Cooling?


                      Before people accepted Darwinism as the theory of Evolution, Lamarkism was the way. That does not make the latter false. The same with how combustion happens (Phlogiston Theory), how light travels (the Aether) or how Malaria is contracted (it's not from "bad air" but by mosquitoes). Science changes and is never unnanimous.

                      As to the slight deviations in climate change year to year or decade to decade this is also a normal function of planet Earth. This is primarily caused by that big bright yellow star in our sky.


                      I'll ad to what i said before, you are a simplistic idiot.

                      Al Gore is a dirty rotten scoundrel for bilking so many of you naive folks out of cash to line his pockets. His motivation is MONEY. He is like a BILLIONARE (that's $1,000 MILLION) - thanks to fooling the foolish. Al Gore will burn in Hell for what he is doing. Mark my words on this. The four of us will never see him Up There!


                      Don't care about Gore. He is just a messenger for the scientists. I really don't get why people keep using him as an argument against Climate change as if conservatives hatred for Gore somehow void decades worth of research.

                      And yes I have grandkids. Nine in fact and the least of my worries is the ecological viability of our planet.


                      Well you're going to kick the bucket in the next 20 years. What do you care about how your actions will affect you.

                      They need to be worried about surviving the catastrophic liberal policies shoved down our throats by the three stooges of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid during the last couple years. What this trio has done in two short years has been horrible.


                      [http://www.blueherald.com/uploads/Buck2/oh_noes.gif]

                      Name one thing they have done to help America!


                      The first thing that comes up to my mind is the passage of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act last year. Since you only said one thing i'll just name one to not make this nay more longer.

                      AG Holder is a complete joke. Did you hear about him going to court to help some Muslim woman teacher who wants all of December off for her religion? Yeah. That's right. Let's make sure EVERY teacher gets December off. That'll help our grandkids, huh?


                      Well we give schools the day off for Jewish holidays and that teacher was asking for unpaid leave in order to join the pilgrimage to the mecca. How would you feel if schools forbade teachers from taking the holy week off. A teacher going out for a reasonable reason on one of the shortest school months is not going to crumble our children's education nor will it lead to every teacher getting December off, specially since, i repeat, she asked for unpaid leave as in an excuse form work.

                      Last, I really don't get offended with anyone making fun of my screen name. No biggie. In fact, I picked it knowing I'd get some grief over it. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy liberals so often display when they called me out for making fun of the MMFA writer.


                      Well you get grief from it because you act like an obnoxious jackass. It really has nothing to do with your screen name. You seem to beleive and expect of liberals to be punching bags, whom you can mock and deride with no repercussion whatsoever.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 3:52 pm ET)
                          7
                        Oh Johaely, what am I to do with a simpleton such as you? Let's start here:

                        Me: "Here's the deal on global warming: Man is NOT the primary cause of it. Period."

                        You: "The level of scientific research you did ther should earn you the Nobel Prize for Science. I'm serious."

                        Me: "One seismic event by Mother Nature such as a volcano can be and HAS BEEN bigger in terms of pollution then ALL of man kind since the Industrial Revolution."

                        You: "Ok you are stupid."

                        Me quoting you: "The level of scientific research you did ther (sic) should earn you the Nobel Prize for Science. I'm serious."

                        Are you following this J or should I type slower? See any blatant hypocrisy at all? Didn't think so. Not your fault. Your brain is wired abnormally.

                        Nonetheless, I'll march on in my attempts to connect with your mis-wired brain. Next:

                        Me: "Don't any of you remember 20 or so years ago your financial driven leftist scientists (filling their pockets with our gullible $$$) frantically forecasting Global Cooling?"

                        You: "Before people accepted Darwinism as the theory of Evolution, Lamarkism was the way blah, blah, blah."

                        The "examples" you cite are not close to the last 20 years, You see, they are MUCH older. It's like apples and oranges. I am fairly certain I have much more formal education then you so am well aware of how science works, thank you very much. The flip-flop from cooling to warming as the cause of destroying our planet in just 20 years is hardly credible. In fact it's laughable. The only reason I can figure so many leftists believe such claptrap is my theory of mis-wired brain genetics born to liberals. Take the time to think on this one before you pound out one of your foolish posts.

                        And I continue:

                        Me: "And yes I have grandkids. Nine in fact and the least of my worries is the ecological viability of our planet."

                        You: "Well you're going to kick the bucket in the next 20 years. What do you care about how your actions will affect you."

                        See above. Proof I am in fact better educated then you J. You can't even read right!

                        And more:

                        Me: "Name one thing they have done to help America!"

                        You: "The first thing that comes up to my mind is the passage of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act last year."

                        I must have missed this. Please tell me more! Will it help get our employment rate up over 90%? I bet it'll help our teenagers get more work, huh?

                        I leave the best for last:

                        You: "Well we give schools the day off for Jewish holidays and that teacher was asking for unpaid leave in order to join the pilgrimage to the mecca. How would you feel if schools forbade teachers from taking the holy week off. A teacher going out for a reasonable reason on one of the shortest school months is not going to crumble our children's education nor will it lead to every teacher getting December off, specially since, i repeat, she asked for unpaid leave as in an excuse form work."

                        OK then. Let's go ahead and just take December off (paid or unpaid - the teachers are not at school to teach.) I figure the reason you're OK with this is because you are not too big on education. For proof see above. BTW, in case you don't get it, what's next? Somebody wants October off for some reason? Once a president is set a president is set. (Look up the word president J. It'll help you.)

                        Last last (I lied B4).

                        You: "Well you get grief from it because you act like an obnoxious jackass. It really has nothing to do with your screen name. You seem to believe and expect of liberals to be punching bags, whom you can mock and deride with no repercussion whatsoever."

                        I am NOT obnoxious!
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Johaely (December 19, 2010 5:24 pm ET)
                          5  
                          Me: "Here's the deal on global warming: Man is NOT the primary cause of it. Period."

                          You: "The level of scientific research you did ther should earn you the Nobel Prize for Science. I'm serious."

                          Me: "One seismic event by Mother Nature such as a volcano can be and HAS BEEN bigger in terms of pollution then ALL of man kind since the Industrial Revolution."

                          You: "Ok you are stupid."

                          Me quoting you: "The level of scientific research you did ther (sic) should earn you the Nobel Prize for Science. I'm serious."

                          Are you following this J or should I type slower? See any blatant hypocrisy at all? Didn't think so. Not your fault. Your brain is wired abnormally.



                          Yes i'm following that. I'm following that you can't read sarcasm.

                          Me: "Don't any of you remember 20 or so years ago your financial driven leftist scientists (filling their pockets with our gullible $$$) frantically forecasting Global Cooling?"

                          You: "Before people accepted Darwinism as the theory of Evolution, Lamarkism was the way blah, blah, blah."

                          The "examples" you cite are not close to the last 20 years, You see, they are MUCH older. It's like apples and oranges. I am fairly certain I have much more formal education then you so am well aware of how science works, thank you very much. The flip-flop from cooling to warming as the cause of destroying our planet in just 20 years is hardly credible. In fact it's laughable. The only reason I can figure so many leftists believe such claptrap is my theory of mis-wired brain genetics born to liberals. Take the time to think on this one before you pound out one of your foolish posts.


                          Two things, the idea of greenhouse gasses causing global warming is older than the 20th century.
                          From wikipedia:

                          The greenhouse effect is the process by which absorption and emission of infrared radiation by gases in the atmosphere warm a planet's lower atmosphere and surface. It was proposed by Joseph Fourier in 1824 and was first investigated quantitatively by Svante Arrhenius in 1896.[32]

                          Naturally occurring greenhouse gases have a mean warming effect of about 33 °C (59 °F).[33][C] The major greenhouse gases are water vapor, which causes about 36–70 percent of the greenhouse effect; carbon dioxide (CO2), which causes 9–26 percent; methane (CH4), which causes 4–9 percent; and ozone (O3), which causes 3–7 percent.[34][35][36] Clouds also affect the radiation balance, but they are composed of liquid water or ice and so have different effects on radiation from water vapor.

                          Human activity since the Industrial Revolution has increased the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, leading to increased radiative forcing from CO2, methane, tropospheric ozone, CFCs and nitrous oxide. The concentrations of CO2 and methane have increased by 36% and 148% respectively since 1750.[37] These levels are much higher than at any time during the last 650,000 years, the period for which reliable data has been extracted from ice cores.[38][39][40] Less direct geological evidence indicates that CO2 values higher than this were last seen about 20 million years ago.[41] Fossil fuel burning has produced about three-quarters of the increase in CO2 from human activity over the past 20 years. Most of the rest is due to land-use change, particularly deforestation.[42]


                          Global cooling was just a conjecture, an educated guess.The media made it seem as if all scientist suddenly believed in it butin reality it was not even a theory. When thye discovered that it was not cooling but warming that was occuring they did the logical step and changed it form cooling to warming.

                          Second thing, they are in no way different. Before any natural or physical theory was accepted one existed that explained the phenomena. Time means nothing.

                          Somebody who is "more educated" than me would not be using stupid rethorical tricks, bad science and logical fallacies to prove a point.
                          Let's go with your volcano theory. Volcanic eruptions are natural events which occur rarely. They also have a COOLING effect on the atmosphere because volcanic smoke is composed amongst many things water vapor and sulfur dioxide which combines to turn into sulfuric acid and then condensates on the atmosphere and forms diminute particles which reflect infrared rays back out. In case you can't understand chemistry i'll say it in simple terms: VOLCANOES DON'T CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING. Of course I said all of that without even adressing the fact that humans by sheer number throw out into the atmosphere more CO2 and methane (aside from other toxic pollution) than volcanoes in their irregular activity and fuming do. I ebt you also buy Rush's "there are more trees now than before Columbus" or some really stupid crap.

                          Me: "And yes I have grandkids. Nine in fact and the least of my worries is the ecological viability of our planet."

                          You: "Well you're going to kick the bucket in the next 20 years. What do you care about how your actions will affect you."

                          See above. Proof I am in fact better educated then you J. You can't even read right!



                          I read right. You don't care about the enviroment because Obama is going to institute a totalitarian nazi-socialist-fascist government and all that crap. You also don't care because by the time you will be dead by the time
                          Me: "Name one thing they have done to help America!"

                          You: "The first thing that comes up to my mind is the passage of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act last year."

                          I must have missed this. Please tell me more! Will it help get our employment rate up over 90%? I bet it'll help our teenagers get more work, huh?


                          You asked me if he did something good for america i gave you that. The lilly ledbetter fairpay act was the first act signed by obama and was a step foward for equality in pay for women. It overturned Ledbetter v. Goodyear which said that employees can't sue a company for discriminatory pay based on decisions that occured 180 days or more ago. Other things good he has done? Actually ended combat operations in Iraq; passed the stimulus, which was full of your delicious tax cuts and caved in to Republican politiquering and extended the upper tax cuts which now will turn that issue into a political football by Republicans in the coming election because they have no shame.

                          You: "Well we give schools the day off for Jewish holidays and that teacher was asking for unpaid leave in order to join the pilgrimage to the mecca. How would you feel if schools forbade teachers from taking the holy week off. A teacher going out for a reasonable reason on one of the shortest school months is not going to crumble our children's education nor will it lead to every teacher getting December off, specially since, i repeat, she asked for unpaid leave as in an excuse form work."

                          OK then. Let's go ahead and just take December off (paid or unpaid - the teachers are not at school to teach.) I figure the reason you're OK with this is because you are not too big on education. For proof see above. BTW, in case you don't get it, what's next? Somebody wants October off for some reason? Once a president is set a president is set. (Look up the word president J. It'll help you.)


                          I think the word you are looking for is precedent. President is a word that describes either the head of an institution or the commander in chief, the highest hierachial(?) possition of the executive branch of government. That teacher, and only her, was asking for december off for the hajj, which is a once in a lifetime occurence, literally. It's not annual event and once she's gone she doesn't need to do it again unless she wishes to. Btw, the complaint occurred tow years ago and now is when the lawsuit ahs reached the Supreme Court. She is not even working in the school anymore. And even with all of what i wrote i still have no idea how A teacher taking ONE month off (in reality it was no more than three weeks, in december, the last month of the first semester in all schools and the shortest one).
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 10:42 pm ET)
                              6
                            "Yes I’m following that. I'm following that you can't read sarcasm."

                            Ya know J, I told the wife you'd claim sarcasm or loss of memory or something goofy. Thanks for not disappointing. Liberals are so predictable and transparent. It is because of your fruitless attempts of trying to deceive us normal folks that most Americans don't take you seriously anymore. Want proof? See 11/02/10 election results.

                            But, we need types like you to remind us of where we could end up if we don't take care of business. So, thank you!

                            Regarding Global Warming, I fully agree that our climate changes. Even my youngest grandson knows this. Where we apparently disagree is WHY it changes. You claim it to be only because of "man". I am POSITIVE it is not primarily because of man - partially, maybe - totally, NO! How can a reasonable person watch something like Katrina or a tsunami or an earthquake, with their irrefutable strength, literally toss us around like rag dolls, think people could supercede their awesome strength? Baffling to me.

                            Anyways, regarding your contention: "Other things good he has done? Actually ended combat operations in Iraq; passed the stimulus.."

                            Let's put it this way. The only way I could EVER imagine Obama in a military uniform is in a cartoon. Most, if not all, of us normal folks are fairly positive the only way we'd ever see him in "uniform" is on Holloween. Face it. He is 100% non-military. No way I'd EVER wanna be in a foxhole with him. I'd gladly share my foxhole with any Bush, any time. I realize most here can't even come close to understanding this in your mis-wired brains but us regular people fully understand. Actually, it's really simple. You trust the guy who never cheats even when no one is around Vs the guy who looks for photo ops. Like Bush JR who went to HUNDREDS of hospitals to visit wounded troops without any fanfair. Didn't even tell the media about it! And in anticipation of you leftist wimps who will say something like "well, he should go there becaue he put 'em there"., think of Bill Clinton positioning rocks into a cross on Normandy that magically turned up from out of nowhere. In fact, I don't think there is a single Democrat who doesn't play the game for show. If you think about it for too long normal people get sick.

                            And one more thing, if you wanna give teachers time off for whatever, OK with me. Just be consistent. I want all of Septembers off because of my religion of xxyyzzkkkwwwmmmccccsassoiwreuiwefyugwefuohbfvkdafvkklj and you'd better grant it.


                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (December 20, 2010 1:24 am ET)
                              7 1
                              Wow so you know global warming is not caused by man because of your faith in God? Bush visited hospitals of vets but didn't let the media know but you found out? You are sure Obama doesn't visit hospitals of vets how? You would've had a hard time finding George Jr. in a fox hole since he didn't show up for his flight physical in Alabama. How does a person with no flight knowledge jump over pilots and more qualified canidates to get into the Texas Air National Guard? You have a influential father pull strings for you. Why were people joining the guard during the Viet Nam conflict? To get out of going to Nam. Why do you call yourself mentalgiant when you are always coming up short mentally?
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by onementalgiant (December 20, 2010 10:15 am ET)
                                  5
                                "You would've had a hard time finding George Jr. in a fox hole since he didn't show up for his flight physical in Alabama."

                                Too funny. At least W served our country in the military. What did Obama do? Oh, that’s right. He was coasting along in the Ivy League under AA - while other people paid his way of course.

                                BTW, I did serve - in VN.

                                2BTW, it was reported AFTER W left office that he visited so many wounded and families of the fallen.

                                3BTW, I know Obama has not done the equivalent because if he had we'd know about it. No way he wouldn't use every visit as a photo op and you know it.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by Johaely (December 20, 2010 10:59 am ET)
                                  4 1
                                  Yeah its impossible Obama actually made his in. He is black therefore he got in as a result of affirmative action and not because he may have actually worked hard for it.
                                  Report Abuse
                                • Author by congero6189599 (December 20, 2010 12:26 pm ET)
                                  8  
                                  I am sorry i don't see the humor in GB escaping finishing his terms of service in the Air National Guard. I don't think the families or the soldiers over 55,000 of them who gave their lives would find it humorous either. Do you know what happened to working class youth that failed a college test or didn't keep up their grades? Their status was revoked and they were immediately shipped to Nam. Do you know what happened to those who were fortunate enough to escape duty by joining the Guard then not living up to their terms of service, by not for example taking a flight physical(making them ineligible to fly)therefore unable to filfull their duty? Their status was revoked and they were immediately shipped to Nam,unless of course you were the son of the head of the CIA and US congressmen. Tell me how many deferments did Cheney get also too.

                                  You find humor in strange places,revealing a warped mind with curious reasoning. You know the publicity shy GB visited hospitals because it was reported!?! Then you know Obama didn't because it wasn't !?!Your proof that global warming is not man made is your belief in God!?!

                                  Your warped thinking continues as you attack Obama for being some affirmitive action person despite his wonderful story of rising above his impoverished conditions utilizing all that America had to offer to become the first mixed race president of the greatest country on earth. His story a shinning example of the greatness,diversity and can do it ness for youth and people here and around the world. His beautiful family role models for the young to aspire to. You can disagree with his politics but to attack him personally is truly the sign of a mentalmidget.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by onementalgiant (December 20, 2010 4:47 pm ET)
                                      4
                                    You appear to be a rather decent person conger so I will grace you with one of my profound responses. As you know, I limit my responses to only those that deserve.

                                    Be honest for me here: You actually think a person who severed in ANY branch of our military, withstood boot camp (this is really tough - I know from personal experience), learned how to pilot a plane that travels faster then sound, is somehow less honorable than someone who was never even IN the military? You gotts be kidden' - smoken'! Your argument that Obama is somehow more moralistic then W because W wasn't picked to go to VN is pathetic. You do know that not every single military person went to VN during the conflict, don't you? Thousands never left American soil. Our military requires infrastructure so lots and lots stayed right here to take care of their assignments.

                                    I won't even get into whether or not your assertion of if W did skip this or that duty is factual since you'd never change your opinion regardless of how much proof I provide. Let's just say you and Dan Rather have the same philosophy.

                                    BTW, we lost over 58,000 in VN, I was there and it was no picnic.

                                    2BTW, so me saying I trust W more than Obama is a "personal" attack towards Obama? Of course you are allowed so say whatever you'd like about W, Bush Sr., Cheney, Newt, Rush, blah, blah, blah. You don't see any double standard here, eh? See why I am certain our brains are not wired the same? Good grief. You leftists are truly hilarious!

                                    3BTW, I agree Obama has a very nice family. Probably one of the best to ever live in the WH. GWB has a very nice family too - I'm sure you agree, eh conger? Too bad the LW media went after the Bush daughters so much, huh? I do have to say Michelle could probably do without several of her personal staff of hairdressers, makeup, manicurists, etc. What do you think?
                                    Report Abuse
                        • Author by Johaely (December 19, 2010 5:28 pm ET)
                          7  
                          Oh and i almost forgot:

                          You: "Well you get grief from it because you act like an obnoxious jackass. It really has nothing to do with your screen name. You seem to believe and expect of liberals to be punching bags, whom you can mock and deride with no repercussion whatsoever."

                          I am NOT obnoxious!


                          Yes you are. Your first post on the article was mocking and insulting the writer (all without mentioning nothing about the article itself). Then you joke about somebody shooting Al Gore. And you have called liberals diseased multiple times before. If that's not proof that you are obnoxious, i don't know what is.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 11:14 pm ET)
                              4
                            Dabg J! Give a guy some rope and.....! Nevermind. I NEVER said anything about anybody shooting Albert Gore. Never said anything about liberals being "diseased" either. I will admit these two assertions from you do tend to substantiate my claim that leftists have mental issues. I really do NOT mean this in a negative way. I REALLY do think it is beyond your ability to grasp. In other words, it is NOT your fault.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Maimon (December 20, 2010 5:45 pm ET)
                              2  
                              Man you are so stuck in your Right-wing illusions. It is really funny. You were stripped down and rebuilt in boot camp. I spent 8 years working and living in a combat zone and I never bought the propaganda.

                              " Cause I'm cell locked in the doctrines of the Right. Enslaved by dogma. You talk about my birth rights. Cast me into classes for electoral shock, plain incarcerated, the curiculum's a cell block"

                              "This is for those that have spangled and mangled the truth"
                              Report Abuse
                    • Author by vysotsky (December 19, 2010 2:05 pm ET)
                      7  
                      Incredibly, I can take on all three of you with half my brain tied behind my back (phrase courtesy of Rush).

                      And yet, incredibly, you can't come up with an original joke. How impressive.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (December 19, 2010 2:19 pm ET)
                      6  
                      And yes I have grandkids. Nine in fact and the least of my worries is the ecological viability of our planet. They need to be worried about surviving the catastrophic liberal policies shoved down our throats by the three stooges of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid during the last couple years. What this trio has done in two short years has been horrible. Name one thing they have done to help America! AG Holder is a complete joke. Did you hear about him going to court to help some Muslim woman teacher who wants all of December off for her religion? Yeah. That's right. Let's make sure EVERY teacher gets December off. That'll help our grandkids, huh?

                      ONE, PLEASE tell me what has President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid done that is sooo horrible?

                      Stop the financial meltdown caused by the former Republican administration?

                      If you recall, the financial crisis started in 2007. And PLEASE don't bother with the standard right-wing "the Dems took control in 2007", because YOU know and I know that ANY "control" the Dems had was ONLY in numbers and NOT enough number to pass ANY legislation WITHOUT Republican support.

                      So HOW did this country's financial system, under COMPLETE control of Republicans from 2001 through 2006, collapse like a house of cards?

                      We borrowed money from China to give tax cuts to the wealthest 1% of Americans. We borrowed money from China to start a half-a** attempt at war in Afghanistan. We borrowed money from China to start ANOTHER war against a country that did not attack us, Iraq. We borrowed more money to give to private contractors who were suppose to provided security and rebuild the same country we destroyed. And we borrowed even more money that was simply LOST, BILLIONS of YOUR taxpayer dollars gone and NEVER accounted for!

                      And then there's the housing crisis, which the right loves to blame on poor folks buying more house than they could afford.

                      But IF you bother to "follow the money", you see that ANYONE involved in the mortgage supply chain made BILLIONS! From the mortgage brokers who sold the loans he/she KNEW people couldn't afford, to the small banks that funded the brokers to the giant investment banks behind them.

                      NO lending standards and NO regulation and another house of cards falls down.

                      And then there's the complete lack of ANY job creation over 8 years and the loss of millions of American jobs..........and ON and ON and ON!

                      If President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid had inherited a country like Bush did in 2001, YOU might have a starting point to complain about where we this country is NOW, but THEY didn't and YOU don't!

                      And if YOU think "mental giants", McCain and Palin would have done a better job, then YOU smoked the entire pipe, not just inhaled secondhand smoke!

                      AG Holder is a complete joke. Did you hear about him going to court to help some Muslim woman teacher who wants all of December off for her religion? Yeah. That's right. Let's make sure EVERY teacher gets December off. That'll help our grandkids, huh?

                      So Onementalgiant, in typical right-wing fashion of NOT bothering with FACTS, YOU link Eric Holder, (the Black Atty General who did nothing to the New Black Panthers because they're Black too), is now defending a "Muslim" (you know, the Muslims who want to kill Americans, the Al Qaeda folks), woman teacher who wants time off (probably PAID time off) because of her religion (Islam, you know the one that says kill all non Muslims).

                      Safoorah Kahn started as a middle school teacher in 2007 and in 2008, she asked for almost 3 weeks of UNPAID leave to perform the Hajj(every adult Muslim is suppose to make the pilgrimage at least once in a lifetime if they're physically and financial able to). After the district twice denied her request, Kahn wrote the board that "based on her religious beliefs, she could not justify delaying performing the hajj" and resigned shortly thereafter.

                      In November 2008, Kahn filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment opportunity Commission, which found reasonable cause that discrimination had occurred and forwarded the matter to the Justice Department.

                      The government sued, saying the school district violated the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by failing to reasonably accommodate Khan's religious practices by denying her UNPAID leave to make a pilgrimage that is a central part of her religion.

                      The government has asked the court to order the school district to adopt policies that REASONABLY accommodate it's employees religious practices and beliefs and to reinstate Kahn with back pay and also pay her compensatory damages.


                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 5:03 pm ET)
                          6
                        Well pearl, I hesitate to reply to you because I kind of like you. You are probably the least abrasive of all on this Board. You have some class. But, since you asked what the Three Stooges have done to destroy our beloved Country I am forced to respond.

                        The biggest is they forced upon 300 Million Americans, or 1/6 of our economy, a Health Care Bill consisting of 2,700 pages of bureaucratic BS requiring something like 160 new government agencies that will, in time, cause yours and my health care to be seriously jeopardized. We will be forced into waiting untold periods of time to get basic treatment (for proof see any other Counties Government run health care success). And while we wait our costs will go up, and up, and up. Even Obama recently had to admit his assertion that Obamacare would decrease the deficit was WRONG! Obamacare will INCREASE the deficit. Anyone with a brain should have known insuring another 30 million people (plus other perks) would cost money. Duhhhh.

                        Now, as to the financial crisis. This was actually started under Clinton, if not before. While the motives were pure (trying to get more folks into their own homes), the method was not. The approval of loans to people who could not afford mortgages was a disaster for everyone. GWB tried to get some regulation on Freddie and Fannie 18 times but was rebuffed by the Democrats every time. Dodd and Frank laughed at Americans all the way to their respective banks. You know the sweetheart deals they got.

                        Now, as to the standard liberal cry of "tax cuts for the wealthy", I know you are smart enough to realize pearl that it is the "wealthy" that employs people who are not "wealthy", right? If you know of a poor person who employs someone let me know. Maybe they'd hire me! See, this is how it is pearl. At least 1/2 - 50% - of the supposed wealthy are small businesses who prepare their taxes just like you and me on a 1040. If they are hit with a tax increase then they can't hire another person and grow their business. Instead of hiring they must send the IRS more money. You get this, right? Now, if the small businesses, which represent about 80% of all employees, can't hire more people, guess what? Unemployment stays high! If unemployment stays high, then our economy stays in the toilet. Don't mess with me pearl - I know you are savy enough get this.

                        As to Eric Holder, I care less about his skin color. In fact, I'm disappointed you'd even mention this. What I find objectionable about him is he is really marginal at best (worse then Reno even). You do know he represented known terrorists before he became USAG don't you? Then he comes along suing AZ over a law even the feds have on the books, trying war criminals in civil courts, basically parroting anything ACLU. I mean good grief. I am the most reasonable person you'd ever meet but jezz, taking sides with a teacher who wants December off for ANY reason is really stupid.

                        BTW, regarding what the rest of what the Three Stooges have done to destroy America:

                        Deficit: $14,000,000,000,000.00 and growing
                        Unemployment: 10%
                        Jobs lost: 4 million
                        Border control: Zip
                        TSA: A few free feels
                        DOW: 11,000 Vs 14,000 under Bush (even with 9/11)
                        Bankruptcies: Doubled
                        Home Foreclosures: Doubled
                        Homeless: Tripled

                        And, least not we forget, the three Stooges prosper with Multi thousand dollar dresses, lavish vacations costing millions, personal jets, sweetheart land deals, ad nausem. In fact, I gotta stop before I get physically sick......
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Maimon (December 19, 2010 7:58 pm ET)
                          6  
                          Well the deficit is a problem....but lets not forget who owns the lion share: G Bush. I bet you loved Bush.

                          Let's not forget who has resisted reforming derivatives that lead to housing bubble: republicans. I am guessing you vote republican.

                          Let's not forget it was PRIVATE industry that drove this crash: AIG, Goldman Sachs, B-Stern.I bet you are for deregulation

                          Let's not forget it was Health -Insurance reform, not healthcare reform. You want health care providers to raise premiums so they can make even more profits.

                          Who lost 8 million jobs: G Bush. Are you tearing up when you think about Bush ?

                          Border control costs money and you don't want your taxes going up. Also you probably oppose a national Id card. That's right government ID cards...
                          Hmm who is hiring all those illegals? Ohh wait companies in the southern US. Cheap labour, a republicans wet dream. You love cheap labour, they mow your lawns, they build your houses and they harvest your cheap food.

                          Who makes up the majority of homeless?? Military veterans and minorities. Who cut mental health services?? Ohh wait republicans. Hmm wow I thought republicans liked the military. ohh wait , they like wars for profit!!!

                          If you are blaming all the woes on an administration that has only been in for 2 years., you are not basing your decision on reality. Obama is trying to patch together a broken country that was destroyed in 8 years of G Bush/ D Cheney money orgy.

                          Rich people do not create job that is an economic fact. Companies in stable environments create jobs. Clinton raised taxes and made created jobs.

                          I wish you would discuss facts rather than emotion.

                          I think your name is a misnomer..but i still love you ;)
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by raddave43 (December 19, 2010 11:00 pm ET)
                          4  
                          You should call yourself "onememtalmidget" with all the RW talking points you crammed into one post. At least change your name to "onerightwingparrot."
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by raddave43 (December 19, 2010 11:00 pm ET)
                          2  
                          You should call yourself "onememtalmidget" with all the RW talking points you crammed into one post. At least change your name to "onerightwingparrot."
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by onementalgiant (December 19, 2010 11:22 pm ET)
                              3
                            Posting twice means your opinioms are twice as profound. Sez so right here in the "bintx owners manual for conservatives" on page 3443.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by raddave43 (December 20, 2010 12:28 am ET)
                                 
                              Double posting is because the server screwed up, not because I wanted it to post twice.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by bintx (December 20, 2010 9:10 am ET)
                              3  
                              Thanks, once again, for proving in your posts on this thread that you are simply an authoritarian follower, a groupie, a talking point parrot.

                              You're an embarrassment. Educate yourself.
                              Report Abuse
                        • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (December 20, 2010 4:10 pm ET)
                          6 1
                          a Health Care Bill consisting of 2,700 pages of bureaucratic BS

                          ONE, Presidents, going back almost 100 years, have voiced the need to reform this country's healthcare system. Who knows, if Nixon had not been caught in his Watergate scandal, we might have had the 1974 Nixon/Kennedy Healthcare Plan.

                          The U.S. spent 17.6% of GDP on healthcare in 2009, more than double the percentages spent by Japan, Britain, Spain, Italy and Australia. Trends in Healthcare Cost and Spending...

                          Healthcare cost have skyrocketed and while the reform isn't perfect and YOU may not like it, SOMETHING had to be done.

                          Your "dire predictions" are NOT written in stone. And like all other legislation, changes can and will be made.

                          Now, as to the financial crisis. This was actually started under Clinton, if not before

                          You start the blame of the financial crisis on Clinton but did Bill Clinton leave a economy like the one Bush left President Obama?

                          One word, NO!

                          And NO, Bush DID NOT try to get legislation passed on Fannie and Freddie. Because IF he really wanted to get something done, there was NOTHING stopping him. Don't forget, Republicans had a veto proof majority and Bush NEVER vetoed a single bill during the time Republicans had complete control of Congress.

                          Blaming Bush and the Republican failures on Dodd and Frank is a joke!

                          Now, as to the standard liberal cry of "tax cuts for the wealthy", I know you are smart enough to realize pearl that it is the "wealthy" that employs people who are not "wealthy", right?

                          Bush created 3 million jobs in 8 years, the WORST jobs creation by ANY President since the government began keeping records!

                          So please, please, please, tell me what the HELL happened to all those jobs? Was the "tax cuts" not large enough?

                          And then YOU have the nerve to include a deficit charge against President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid?

                          Congressional Budget Office data show that the tax cuts have been the single largest contributor to the reemergence of substantial budget deficits in recent years. Legislation enacted since 2001 added about $3.0 trillion to deficits between 2001 and 2007, with nearly half of this deterioration in the budget due to the tax cuts (about a third was due to increases in security spending, and about a sixth to increases in domestic spending).

                          And regarding small business owners:
                          A Tax Policy Center analysis found that only 1.3 percent of filers with small business income are subject to the top income tax rate and so benefit from lowering it. Moreover, these households hardly conform to the popular image of a small business owner: they derived, on average, less than a third of their total income from a small businessThe 2001 and 2003 Tax Cuts and Small Business...

                          As to Eric Holder, I care less about his skin color. What I find objectionable about him is he is really marginal at best (worse then Reno even).

                          Marginal? THIS is marginal:

                          Under Alberto Gonzales's leadership, the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation were accused of improperly, and perhaps illegally, using the USA PATRIOT Act to uncover personal information about U.S. citizens. His inability to explain his role and influence in the dismissal of U.S. attorneys led several members of the United States Congress from both major political parties to call for his resignation. Through his testimony before Congress on issues ranging from the Patriot Act to U.S. Attorney firings, he commonly admitted ignorance. For example, in response to a Washington Post article which stated that Gonzales was told about FBI violations involving the Patriot Act, Justice officials "could not immediately determine whether Gonzales read any of the FBI reports in 2005 and 2006."

                          Deficit? Unemployment? Border Control?

                          WHAT?

                          One, seriously, were YOU sleeping through the Bush years?

                          YOU expect President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to fix an economy on it's 2ND depression, address the country financial crisis, cut the deficit AND continue giving tax cuts, secure the border, address the country WORST housing crisis, which started back in 2006 AND stop homeless in 2 YEARS?

                          If I wanted to be sarcastic I'd ask you if you're smoking crack!

                          Placing the blame on Obama, Pelsoi and Reid for not solving ALL of the country's problems in 2 freaking years says MORE about YOU than anything!

                          And, least not we forget, the three Stooges prosper with Multi thousand dollar dresses, lavish vacations costing millions, personal jets, sweetheart land deals, ad nausem. In fact, I gotta stop before I get physically sick......

                          You claim to want a decent, civil debate but stoop to the childish level of calling them "three stooges"?

                          And if you're sick now, just hang on to your throw up bag. When this current Republican/Tea party House is finish, you'll need bucket!

                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by bintx (December 20, 2010 9:05 am ET)
                      1  
                      Sorry, but you're the one who picked a name which is obviously fraught with irony.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by ilikeike (December 18, 2010 7:06 pm ET)
                2  
                cant argue with that. not on a site that regualarly uses names like rush limpballs,sean insanity,etc.
                of course ours are funnier
                Report Abuse
              • Author by steeve (December 18, 2010 7:28 pm ET)
                6  
                It's only fallacious to personally attack someone if that's the only content of the message. But if someone objectively demonstrates that you are an idiot, and then makes fun of you for being an idiot, the objective demonstration still stands, and the personal attack becomes truth.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by fo3angels (December 18, 2010 8:53 pm ET)
                4  
                Dude, you truly are the mirror of the name you choose to post under.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mattcable250650 (December 19, 2010 12:05 am ET)
                4  
                Good grief! You come up with the name one mental giant and you can't imagine why anyone considers the name completely preposterous? Dude, seriously, there are people who get picked on and there are people who just ask to get picked on!
                Report Abuse
              • Author by outsiderdude (December 20, 2010 12:14 am ET)
                2  
                tissue?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by bintx (December 20, 2010 9:02 am ET)
                2  
                I don't think I'm morally superior to you or anyone else, OMG. I simply find people like you very, very sad. You are woefully uninformed and full of hatred and REVEL in it.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by onementalgiant (December 20, 2010 10:33 am ET)
                    4
                  My problem with you bintx is you don't have the simple courage to admit you are a flaming liberal. Not only this, you claim to be a conservative and us real conservatives don't want a flaming liberal speaking for us.

                  Well, I will admit I have one other problem with you. Remember when you said you have "many, many, Hispanic friends"? This is an indicator you tend you have race issues - but only when conservatives say it - when libbies say they have "many, many, fill-in-the-blank-minority friends" it's OK. Don't ask me to explain why because it doesn't make sense - until you accept my theory that lefties have mis-wired brains.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (December 20, 2010 12:30 pm ET)
                    1  
                    This coming from someone who seems to always come up short mentally.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Maimon (December 20, 2010 3:50 pm ET)
                    3  
                    Why are Liberals " flaming". Is it an attempt to emascualte liberlas and progressives? The reality is alot of conservative avoided military service:

                    -Newt
                    -Hannity
                    -Beck
                    -Rush
                    -Ronald Reagan
                    -Dick Cheney
                    -Jogn
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Maimon (December 20, 2010 3:57 pm ET)
                      1  
                      -Why are Liberals " flaming". Is it an attempt to emascualte liberlas and progressives? The reality is alot of conservative avoided military service:

                      -Newt
                      -Hannity
                      -Beck
                      -Rush
                      -Ronald Reagan
                      -Dick Cheney
                      -John Wayne
                      -Norquist
                      -O'Riley
                      -the list goes on.

                      Then conservatives try to make liberals look like wusses. Jimmy Carter was a Lieutenant in the navy. He also helped develope our nuclear submarine program.

                      John Kerry got swift boated by lies.

                      Another Dem was a Marine and conservatives said he was a wuss and weak on defense.

                      Many of us liberals have served in the military or have helped develope weapons systems or have helped negotiate PEACE.
                      Report Abuse
            • Author by swayjay (December 20, 2010 10:14 am ET)
              1  
              Sounds like Rush, in ASCII form.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by ilikeike (December 18, 2010 7:04 pm ET)
        4  
        yet strangely the average poster on this site has higher education and income than your fox news fans.
        hey if you really need to get high your friends rush limbaugh and ted haggard will hook you up. of course you may have to give them some "payback" if you know what i mean
        Report Abuse
    • Author by YouTubeJEFF9K (December 18, 2010 10:18 am ET)
      6  
      The problem is even worse when you consider that “talk radio” which is almost exclusively conservative, echoes these talking points and, together with Fox News, tricks millions of people into voting Republican, against their own interests. This has the effect of massive election fraud.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by YouTubeJEFF9K (December 18, 2010 10:19 am ET)
      5  
      The problem is even worse when you consider that talk radio which is almost exclusively conservative, echoes these talking points and, together with Fox News, tricks millions of people into voting Republican, against their own interests. This has the effect of massive election fraud.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by SanctifyMe (December 19, 2010 10:09 am ET)
        1  
        So people should just their selfish interests and not what is good for the country?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by steeve (December 19, 2010 12:30 pm ET)
          6  
          On economic matters, it's moot. Literally everybody, even the rich, do better under liberal policies.

          It's just one of many things that are so galling about this country's slide to ruin. Even the orchestrators of the evil would personally do better if they'd stop the evil.

          Even greed can be good if it's not stupid.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Randall Flagg (December 19, 2010 10:57 am ET)
      3  
      "All the news that's fit to distort"
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ngc1216 (December 19, 2010 10:06 pm ET)
         
      A simple test anyone can run on climate change!
      I am a retired physicist and like data to help me make informed conclusions.Each day your local weather channel gives you the high and low temperature for the previous day;then ususally follows with the record high and lows and in what years that record occurred the year .Just collect about 7 days data and write the recorded high and low temperatures down .You don't need a computer just a pencil and paper
      ?? Is it only me that noticed that record highs are occurring more frequently than record lows.This is not rocket science;mankind is pumping industrial gases into the atmosphere AS POPULATION GROWS,VOLCANOS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WITH US-AND THE SUNS AVERAGE ENERGY OUTPUT IS A CONSTANT
      Frank Lipsky Scottsdale AZ
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ronhohn (December 20, 2010 12:03 pm ET)
      1  
      I want to fault Democrats for one thing. That is carelessness in labeling things.
      I am not 100% sure who labeled 'Climate Change' originally as 'Global Warming' or why they labeled the legislation that intends to give affordable health care as 'Health Care Reform' rather than what it is: "Insurance Reform".
      So much was made of how much better health care is in the US rather than a myriad of other countries worldwide when the cure really is designed to reform insurance - who will pay for it and how - and not services performed by doctors, hospitals and clinics.
      Republicans are very good at distorting anything that is not precisely defined.
      Report Abuse