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Confounded: How The Trayvon Martin Story Has Baffled The Conservative Press

March 27, 2012 10:38 am ET by Eric Boehlert

Addressing the unfolding story of an unarmed, 17-year-old Florida teen recently killed by a neighborhood watch activist who has not been charged with a crime, Fox News host Jon Scott recently wondered out loud whether the Trayvon Martin case really deserved the national media attention it was receiving. While Fox colleague Jim Pinkerton explained that the coverage stemmed from the fact that the press is "always interested in the cute child that gets murdered" and the "black victim of racism," Scott's query captured the larger Fox News feeling about the mushrooming Martin report, which was to view the story with a mixture of uncertainty and bafflement.  

It seemed the Martin story simply did not fit the right-wing's preferred narrative about guns and minorities and how white America is allegedly under physical assault from Obama's violent African-American base. Or, as Rush Limbaugh famously put it, "[I]n Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering."

The conservative media have spent the last three years utterly obsessed with the topic of race in America, but only when they can frame that issue dishonestly; only when conservatives can use news events for race baiting purposes.  So as the Martin story morphed into a national conversation about race and guns and the law, many conservative media voices remained silent early on. (A silence later replaced by attempts to smear the young victim.)

For a snapshot, TVeyes.com indicates that between March 15 and 25, "Trayvon Martin" was mentioned nearly 500 times on CNN, 350 times on MSNBC, but less than 100 times on Fox News. Through the end of last week, for instance, Fox's late afternoon round table discussion show, The Five, had never discussed the Martin shooting, according to a Nexis review. 

Never.

Last week on Bill O'Reilly's primetime show there were more on-air mentions of "Media Matters" than there were "Trayvon Martin." O'Reilly devoted a Talking Points Memo segment to each. 

And when Fox News did wade into the controversy last week the results were somewhat disastrous, like when Geraldo Rivera suggested it was the sweatshirt hoodie the Florida teen was wearing that was responsible for his death; a comment that was widely ridiculed. (His later suggestion that Martin was dressed like a "wannabe gangster" didn't help matters.)

Fox's initial muted response, especially from it's nighttime opinion shows, stood in stark contrast to the channel's previous cheerleading for the "Stand Your Ground" law, which remains at the center of the Martin controversy. Backed by gun advocates, the Florida law puts the burden on prosecutors to disprove claims of self-defense from shooters who use deadly force. When the law was passed in 2005, critics warned about looming citizen confrontations like the one that ended Martin's life.

Yet rather than vigorously defend the law in the wake of the teen's killing, and rather than offering up coherent analysis of the story, Fox opinion makers mostly preferred to look away, reluctant to engage in the debate. Perhaps, as Orlando Sentinel columnist Beth Kassab wrote last week, that's because "There is no good way for gun proponents to spin the death of an unarmed teenager."

Without Fox News to show the way, much of the conservative press seemed adrift and unsure with how to proceed last week.

From the Moderate Voice, March 23:

There was a lot of buzz about Fox News initially ignoring the Trayvon Martin killing. What most people haven't noted is that nearly every major conservative blog is completely ignoring the story. If you search for the word "Trayvon" on Hot AirMichelle MalkinPower Line, and Instapundit, you come up with zilch. There's not a single mention on Drudge.

Most of the blogs did eventually weigh in on the Martin story -- in order to condemn Obama for respectfully acknowledging the controversy. ("If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.") Malkin lashed out at the president for being "all too willing to pour gas on the fire." In fact, it was Obama's comments regarding Martin that seemed to free up conservatives and prompt them to treat the story of a dead teenager as a purely partisan one; a contest between the left and right. That's the terrain they feel most comfortable on.

In retrospect, the conservative press would have been better off maintaining its distance from the story since in recent days more and more far-right outlets have veered into the ugly territory of trying to smear a dead teenager in an effort to defuse the story and to shift the blame away from the gunman, George Zimmerman.

Those wholesale attacks on Martin, sadly reminiscent of the right-wing media's sex-based assaults on Sandra Fluke's reputation, have revolved around loaded innuendos about the boy's past, posting bogus photos of him online, retrieving tweets from the slain teenager's closed Twitter account, and pretending the Martin story revolves around a small band of irrelevant New Black Panther Party members. (That's been the Daily Caller specialty.)

Just look at  Breitbart blogger Dan Riehl who over the weekend posted a foolish and offensive piece that claimed a photo of Martin widely used by the press has been "altered" and lightened to make him appear less threatening.  (It hadn't been altered.)

Riehl also went searching for old Facebook photos of Martin. He suggested he found one that featured a young boy posing in his underwear flashing an obscene hand gesture. He later took the photo down because he could not confirm it was the Martin who was murdered (it wasn't), never bothering to explain what relevance old Facebook pictures had to do with the Florida killing.  

Still, Michelle Malkin's new site Twitchy followed the misguided lead and also posted the same Facebook picture, suggesting the press had been hiding it because it made Martin look more menacing.

Malkin's site was then forced to post a correction and apology: 

Unable to engage the Martin story on the facts, large portions of the conservative press simply ignored the details until they felt comfortable actively smearing the dead teen. Neither approach reflected well on the movement.




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    • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 10:46 am ET)
      17 4
      Zimmerman and an anonymous witness who had never been heard from in the month between the shooting and now are claiming that Martin attacked Zimmerman and that's why Zimmerman shot him. Leaving aside the facts that a) anyone who thinks the only way to defend yourself from a teenager punching you is to kill them definitely shouldn't own a gun and b) it's completely inconsistent with what all the other witnesses have said, I imagine this is just the angle the right-wing press have been looking for.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 11:24 am ET)
        5 32
        Wow you are so wrong it's not even funny. The witness isn't anonymous the police know who it is, and they took this witnesses stamens the night of the incident.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:31 am ET)
          28 1
          The police who are pretty much universally acknowledged to have f-cked this case up? The police who didn't bother to collect evidence that would have corroborated Zimmerman's account?
          Tell me something, highliter: why do you so desperately want a 17-year-old with no criminal record or history of violent behavior to have had it coming?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 12:35 pm ET)
            1 23
            I'm not desperate to prove anything. I'm not the once convicting someone based on noting but politicized media reports.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:38 pm ET)
              16  
              No your're just confused over how to relate to this incident just like the article said and let slip your racial biases.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 1:11 pm ET)
              12  
              No, you're busy ranting about the Duke lacrosse team and how them Negroes are Teh Real Racists because some of them don't talk to police or something.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by CoolSlaw (March 27, 2012 6:53 pm ET)
              6  
              based on noting but politicized media reports.


              And the 9/11 calls, and the fact that the 9/11 operator told Zimemrman not to pursue, and the history of Zimmerman, and the fact that Trayvon was not armed, and the fact that the shooter had a criminal record and the victim did not, and that Trayvon had every right to be where he was...

              Talk about politicizing! You right wingers are willing to stand by and let a kid's murder go un-investigated because the powerful gun lobby and right wing media control your brain.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by RavenRog (March 27, 2012 2:03 pm ET)
            1 22
            Here's your martyr, you racist liberals...

            Trayvon's past you need to know...

            Zimmerman is a registered Democrat. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 2:11 pm ET)
              9  
              And just how is any of that relevant to the circumstances and the situation of that evening?
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 2:12 pm ET)
              12  
              So, he deserved to die?

              I don't understand what all these "truths" about Trayvon Martin are supposed to reveal? That he deserved to be murdered by a man who ignored emergency dispatch orders to not follow him?

              What, exactly, are you trying to argue with these "truths"?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:48 pm ET)
                10  
                So, he deserved to die?
                Well of course he did. Not only did he MAYBE smoke pot (oh, the humanity!!!) but he was BLACK.

                Although, his black-ness is undisputable, I haven't heard of any toxicology reports claiming that he had any THC in his system. In order for him NOT to have, he would have to have refrained from the reefer for at least a month, assuming that he ever partook in the first place.

                Of course, he was actually suspended for a baggie with residue in his bookbag. There was no pipe, there was actually no pot. It is entirely possible that it wasn't even his bag.

                But even if it was, who cares?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 2:50 pm ET)
                13  
                ...in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver...


                LOL.I think I'll call my local PD with an anonymous tip about the major burglary ring operating out of my garage. Hopefully a search will turn up the dozens of 'burglary tools' I've been looking for over the past few years.

                I think what makes Ravin''s 'history that we need to know' so important is all of the question marks and assertions of things that 'might have' happened.

                That's actually my second journey to the Daily Mail in as many days. A wingnut Facebook friend yesterday linked to the latest in a thousand 'final nails in the coffin' of the global warming alarmist hoax - some out-of-context discovery of crystals showing that the Medeival Warming Period showed some effects as far as Antarctica.

                This completely refuted the imaginary idea that global warming is based entirely on the MWP being isolated in Europe. Reliable sources R Us.




                Report Abuse
                • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 9:03 pm ET)
                  6  
                  in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver...
                  Holy sh1t, are you serious? A flathead screwdriver? Holy ye gods, I must be a serial burglar. I have 3 in my van, 2 in my bike, and about 40 in my tool room in my garage.

                  Hmm. I wonder where I have stashed all the loot?

                  Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:13 pm ET)
              10  
              Wow! Here it comes! The article was so right!

              "...In fact, it was Obama's comments regarding Martin that seemed to free up conservatives and prompt them to treat the story of a dead teenager as a purely partisan one; a contest between the left and right. That's the terrain they feel most comfortable on.

              In retrospect, the conservative press would have been better off maintaining its distance from the story since in recent days more and more far-right outlets have veered into the ugly territory of trying to smear a dead teenager in an effort to defuse the story and to shift the blame away from the gunman, George Zimmerman..."

              Registered Democrat? What does that have to do with anything? So Zimmerman knew all those things before he confronted Trayvon?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 2:18 pm ET)
                11  
                Watching Republicans reaction to this story makes their claims that liberals love criminals laughable.

                They're bending over backwards to turn a murderer into some sort of folk hero.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:28 pm ET)
                  10  
                  Whats really amazing is that RR thought Zimmerman being a democrat meant something. lol. I swear they can't see beyond their narrow blinders of us and them, left and right, not right and wrong!
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 2:37 pm ET)
                    13 1
                    These guys are so hyperpartisan that he probably assumed telling us Zimmerman was a Democrat would stop us all dead in our tracks and cause us to throw our support behind him, because that's what Republicans would do, if they didn't already love murderers who do their killing with handguns.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 2:54 pm ET)
                      8  
                      They always project their own hypocrisy on others, and get completely flummoxed when it doesn't pan out.

                      I saw another wingnut item yesterday, about scary union thugs demonstrating outside of a bankers home, where it was explicitly mentioned that the target was a Democrat, a Clinton administration guy.

                      They don't seem to catch that what they think is support for their BS usually backfires on their point.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Garmo (March 27, 2012 8:27 pm ET)
                        7  


                        Excellent point Andy. You mean like Sara Palin to neutralize Hillary Clinton and Herman Cain to snatch that black vote away from President Obama. These Right Wing Gomers really just don't get it.

                        Oh know, you mean he was a Democrat! Why didn't someone let me know earlier! That changes everything! Paleeeeeeeez. It's so obvious these Right Wing Chuckleheads imagine every one thinks like they do.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Evangelical Democrat (March 29, 2012 1:39 pm ET)
                             
                          "It's so obvious these Right Wing Chuckleheads imagine every one thinks like they do."

                          Since when have right-wingers started thinking?
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 8:15 am ET)
                      1  
                      These guys are so hyperpartisan that he probably assumed telling us Zimmerman was a Democrat would stop us all dead in our tracks and cause us to throw our support behind him
                      I am rather surprised that the fact that he IS a Democrat hasn't made most of the Republicons back off of support for him.

                      Do we have a source for that claim of his party affiliation? Oh, wait, it came from RR. No source.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by dazednamused (March 27, 2012 7:02 pm ET)
                    6  
                    Exactly, congero. I wouldn't care is this guy was a stanch liberal and donated tons of money to Obama's re-election campaign. He killed an unarmmed kid. What possible bearing does political outlook have on that?
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 5:05 pm ET)
                  2  
                  They're bending over backwards to turn a murderer into some sort of folk hero.
                  They're trying to make George Zimmerman into Bernie Goetz.

                  But Bernie Goetz was arrested and convicted.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:44 pm ET)
              8  
              Wow, a conservative British tabloid, approximately the equivalent of the National Enquirer, chimes in. It must be true.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 2:56 pm ET)
                8  
                The UK Daily Mail is a favorite wingnut source. I think their logic is " I know that them Yuropeeuns are all libruls soshelists in the tank for Obummer, Rush told me so. So, if even they agree with Fox, it must be true!!"
                Report Abuse
                • Author by westmassman (March 27, 2012 3:10 pm ET)
                  5  
                  Oh Gawd, Andy. I didn't know you knew my brother. That sounds just like him
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 7:18 pm ET)
                  2  
                  "HURRAH FOR THE BLACKSHIRTS!"
                  -Actual Daily Phail headline
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 4:51 pm ET)
              4  
              And? What does what you posted have to do with the fact that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed teenager who was minding his own business?

              BTW, are you aware of Zimmerman's past? He wasarrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and resisting an officer with violence. His father is a retired magistrate judge . . . all of these cases were "closed." Wonder why? It would appear that Mr. Zimmerman has some issues with violence.

              Further, what the hell difference does his political club membership have to do with anything? He murdered this kid. I might add that the police investigator filed an affidavit the night of the crime stating that he felt that Zimmerman should have at least been charged with manslaughter. The State Attorney told him not to press charges.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 6:09 pm ET)
                4  
                what the hell difference does his political club membership have to do with anything
                In Wingnutistan, one does not go against anyone in the club. If any Republicon believes it, they are all contractually bound to do so as well. If a Republicon does something heinous, they find ways to spin it. Either it will be someone else's fault, or YOUR perception of heinous is false.

                For some reason they think that Democrats have the same membership rules.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highlyunlikely (March 27, 2012 6:15 pm ET)
                  4  
                  If Dems are supposed to be the mirror image of Reps, the Reps must be the funhouse side.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 7:13 am ET)
                4  
                Bintx,
                .....all of these cases were "closed"]." Wonder why?


                Well, at least one of those cases the 2005, Assaulting a Police Officer and Resisting Arrest, both are a third degree felony in Florida. He bargained, and opted for, and completed, a "Diversion" type program, so the charges were dropped and the record expunged. And that is not unusual.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (March 27, 2012 6:23 pm ET)
              5  
              So was John Wayne Gacy. So the hell what? As if anyone's going to think "ooh, guess we can't say anything bad about him because he's a Democrat!"

              Hilarious.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by CoolSlaw (March 27, 2012 6:58 pm ET)
              4  
              Zimmerman is a registered Democrat. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


              So? Does that mean I want justice served any less? No.

              What it does prove is the way the right winger in America's brain has been so rotted by false outrage and partisan hatred that they can't even conceive of an event in terms of fair and just, only "right and left" or "black and white" or republican or democrat.

              I hope you don't blow off this response as just an attack, but instead take a moment to answer why it matters to YOU what political affiliation the shooter had.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by highlyunlikely (March 27, 2012 7:07 pm ET)
                4  
                What it does prove is the way the right winger in America's brain has been so rotted by false outrage and partisan hatred that they can't even conceive of an event in terms of fair and just, only "right and left" or "black and white" or republican or democrat.


                Relevant, irrelevant; germane, non-germane; material, immaterial; worthy of mention, meaningless...
                Report Abuse
              • Author by dazednamused (March 27, 2012 7:07 pm ET)
                2  
                That's easy, Slaw. If he's a registered Dem, then that explains why he's a murderer (sigh)
                Report Abuse
            • Author by michael3ox (March 28, 2012 2:53 am ET)
              5  
              Raven, do you happen to know what a logical fallacy is?

              I don't care what Martin's past is or who Zimmerman is affiliated with politically. Hell, Zimmerman could have been one of the many republicans who registered democrat so they could skew the primaries. However, the issue is that an adult male felt that he had to shoot a 17 year old in the chest in order to defend himself against that unarmed 17 year old. Remember Zimmerman was following Martin, after he was told not to pursue him, so Martin actually could have felt threatened himself. I don't care about what races were involved, Zimmerman and the stand your ground law is unethical and absurd.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by notsure5 (March 28, 2012 10:22 am ET)
              3  
              One of the comments on that page simply says "innocent until proven guilty", presumably in defense of Zimmerman... why didn't Martin get the same consideration?
              Report Abuse
            • Author by dommanno3075 (March 29, 2012 1:37 pm ET)
                1
              The pro-fascist Daily Mail? That's your source? The British tabloids make the N.Y. Post seem respectable.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by beDecent (March 27, 2012 11:33 am ET)
          15  
          They took the witness's stamens? Not nice.

          I'm curious to know if there's a tape of John's 911 call, who is one witness. Several others said it was Martin calling for help, which does in fact make John's account inconsistent with the others.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 12:01 pm ET)
            19  
            They took the witness's stamens?


            I can't believe you didn't mention that they didn't take Zimmerman's pistil.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by beDecent (March 27, 2012 12:03 pm ET)
              10  
              Ha! Damn, pun missed.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 12:16 pm ET)
              9 1
              Good one!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:25 pm ET)
              6 1
              You do understand that highliter has absolutely no clue what you are talking about, right?
              That or he just thinks you mis-spelled "pistol".
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 2:39 pm ET)
                5  
                It wasn't for his benefit, it's the benefit of us "loons".
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 2:43 pm ET)
                  6  
                  Did I tells yas all that I have a Ph.D in English and French, Lit. Or did you already assume that from my posts?

                  S/B it's for......
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:50 pm ET)
                    7  
                    I have 3 pee-aitch-dees from Star Fleet Academy, but I can't tell you what they are in. Warp technology is still ultra-classified. Prime Directive and all. I'm sure you understand.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:53 pm ET)
                    5  
                    I did!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 3:10 pm ET)
                      5  
                      Very impressive, Curious, and I do understand. I also have many more, too, but I don't know what in, as I haven't opened them yet.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 5:09 pm ET)
                        3  
                        Sounds like three degrees of separation from reality...
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 6:05 pm ET)
                          3  
                          Jerk.! Jealous much?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 6:33 pm ET)
                            3  
                            Hey MiniTru, did you see my ABC Breaking News post below? Or have you heard it? This is going to change things big time.

                            Turns out the lead investigator, filed an affidavit that night, stating that he was not convinced of Zimmerman's account of the events. And I guess the DA' didn't think their was enough evidence to charge him.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 6:33 pm ET)
                          4  
                          Whatever, if highliter can claim a masters(sic) in criminal justice, I can claim multiple doctorates in warp theory.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 6:36 pm ET)
                            3  
                            Please, don't disappoint me. I never doubted your claims. Not for a second. Are you watching the news?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 8:29 pm ET)
                              3  
                              Nuh uh, what are they talking about?
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 8:22 am ET)
                                2  
                                Never mind old news now. Why do I always type or when I meant nor? Seems I wouldn't do that, what with all my degrees, smarts, and such. But I do it all the damn time................
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 8:40 am ET)
                                  2  
                                  Don't feel bad, its and it's gets me over and over.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 9:27 am ET)
                                    2  
                                    That's exactly why some folks doubt your connection to Starfleet Academy, one missing or misplaced apostrophe could be disastrous. Well, there's that and your spelling of the place, it's Starfleet, but I'm not questioning your claims, at all. Nope.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 1:54 pm ET)
                                      2  
                                      Oh me. I seem to have misspelled my alma mater. Well, it HAS been 10 years... I mean 14 years... and wait, yeah, that's the ticket: IT WAS A JOKE!
                                      Report Abuse
            • Author by westmassman (March 27, 2012 3:12 pm ET)
              3  
              I can't believe you didn't mention that they didn't take Zimmerman's pistil.


              And they think I have bad humor. That ranks with PI Day 3.14
              Report Abuse
        • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 11:34 am ET)
          14  
          When the name of a witness is withheld that makes the source an anonymous one.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:36 am ET)
            14  
            Stupid elitist librul f@ggot, trying to force us to use words to mean their actual definitions.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 11:38 am ET)
              10  
              Yep. I'm a regular language fascist.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by jlc1 (March 27, 2012 1:31 pm ET)
              1  
              I agree: these liberals are trying to make us use words exactly how they are defined! You are very perceptive and by that I mean you are a blooming idiot.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 11:55 am ET)
            11  
            When the name of a witness is withheld that makes the source an anonymous one.
            Wait - are you saying our resident holder of a masters degree in criminal jsutice got it wrong? No way!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 11:58 am ET)
              14  
              Wait for his lecture of how a crime scene is handeled.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 12:36 pm ET)
                11  
                Wait for his lecture of how a crime scene is handeled.
                Yes, it's a work of Mozart.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 1:08 pm ET)
                  10  
                  But where's Zimmerman (sounds like an elderly super hero) haydn?

                  (you didn't think I was going to be left out did you?)
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:36 pm ET)
                    6  
                    I'll be making a Liszt.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 1:40 pm ET)
                    4  
                    You're probably on hiliter's liszt. ( sorry, I had to stretch)
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by CoolSlaw (March 27, 2012 7:03 pm ET)
                      1 1
                      You mean Shindler's Liszt?

                      Don't be surprised if people are Wagner fingers at ya' for that slip up!
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by MiniTru (March 28, 2012 9:52 am ET)
                        1  
                        That reminds me of the old Jeopardy joke:

                        Answer: "9W".

                        Question: "Herr Wagner, do you spell your name with a 'V'?"
                        Report Abuse
              • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 8:33 pm ET)
                3  
                Sheesh, people are ruthless.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 12:03 pm ET)
              10  
              When he hears 'anonymous witness' he pictures a guy with fake Groucho nose and glasses on, or an Unknown-Comic-style shopping bag on his head, making a statement.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 12:18 pm ET)
                7  
                Unknown-Comic
                You should be gonged for that. =>
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 1:31 pm ET)
                  7  
                  Just another of my timely pop -culture references. Hey, I'm at least 20 or 30 years more current than the average wingnut.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 2:17 pm ET)
                    4  
                    Gonna play my guitar.

                    Whatcha ya gonna do?

                    Still crushing on Jaye P Morgan?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 2:21 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Ha, hadn't thought about Jaye P. in a while. I did kinda dig her.

                      And I'm still using moves I copped from Gene Gene the Dancing Machine.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 2:24 pm ET)
                        4 1
                        And I'm still using moves I copped from Gene Gene the Dancing Machine.
                        So your Saturday nights are pretty open? =>
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 2:28 pm ET)
                          5  
                          How'd ya think I landed my prom date with him? I'm 94 years old, after all.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 2:49 pm ET)
                            4  
                            And MiniTru volunteered to stand by, to pull our wrinkles apart like Velcro, if necessary.

                            It WILL be necessary! ;>) ;>) Woo Hoo!
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 5:12 pm ET)
                              3  
                              And MiniTru volunteered to stand by, to pull our wrinkles apart like Velcro, if necessary.
                              OK, now that's a mental post card that didn't have to be mailed...
                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 2:44 pm ET)
                        7  
                        Let's see if this doesn't bring back some memories.

                        "Raven Rog the Republican said, 'Boy, am I dumb."

                        [pause for laughter and obligatory "how dumb was he?" shout from audience.]

                        "'I'm so dumb,' he said, 'that when I went to the polling place on election day to vote, I mistakenly pulled the lever with my _________.'"
                        Report Abuse
          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 12:41 pm ET)
            1 17
            My god you people are so stupid, if the police know who the witness is then they are not anonymous. Police are not in the habit of releasing witness names to the public for safety reasons.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:47 pm ET)
              11  
              I wouldn't throw around that word stupid. Anonymous police person released info. about Trayvon. Obviously the reporter knows who it is but he still is anonymous since the name hasn't been released.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:50 pm ET)
                6  
                MA in criminal law?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:08 pm ET)
                  9  
                  I think the MA is BS.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 1:20 pm ET)
                  9  
                  Where on earth would they offer that? The reputable Law Schools I know would offer an LLM (Master of Laws) as an immediate post-grad degree. The thesis could be on a topic pertaining to criminal law but most of them deal with things like tax, corporations, constitutions or jurisprudence.

                  Whilst criminal law is interesting as a study at the basic level, the reality, as pointed out by one of my lecturers, is far from the interesting studies we were reading about and more likely concerned an 18-30yr old male, intoxicated and refusing to pay for a pizza or a cab - not the stuff of great scholarship.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 1:44 pm ET)
                    2 15
                    I have never said I have a MA in law, I have repeatedly said I have a MA in Criminal Justice, not law. These bozos don’t know the difference.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 1:49 pm ET)
                      9  
                      Again with stupid and bozos? We've read your post and you have no right to throw around those words.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 1:56 pm ET)
                        2 11
                        Why do you continue us use criminal law when I have never claimed that. I have clarified this repeatedly but you continue to say criminal law.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:00 pm ET)
                          7 1
                          Maybe because whatever you got your degree in you still show you have absolutley no idea WTF you are talking about.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 1:58 pm ET)
                      7  
                      If you're going to claim that your specific education and training qualifies you to speak with particular authority on this matter, then don't stop halfway: Name the school from which you graduated, what classes you took, and any other training and education that has helped you to become so thoroughly mistaken about what it means to protect someone's anonymity.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:16 pm ET)
                          8
                        BA Criminal Justice Administration Central Missouri State University, MA criminal Justice Administration University of Missouri Columbia 4 years Military Police, 2 years MP CID 7 years probation and Parole for the state of Missouri, currently duel status federal technician for the US Army in the Medical Field. Member of the National Guard.

                        That good enough?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:26 pm ET)
                          8  
                          That good enough? No we've read your post and you don't measure up!
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 2:27 pm ET)
                          8  
                          "duel status"

                          All of your teachers and employers must be so proud.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:29 pm ET)
                          10  
                          So, with your duel status, does that mean that you meet your opponent at dawn or high noon?
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:31 pm ET)
                          9 1
                          Dude, spellcheck. Look into it. At least then you might appear to have an 8th grade education. I have yet to see a post from you with correct spelling and usage. All of us suffer the occasional typo, and all of us fail to proofread every once in a while. But you manage to do it with EVERY POST.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 3:54 pm ET)
                          5  
                          Criminal Justice Administration?
                          Sounds very clerical to me. As for Military Police...there's the old joke about the Military Police - they're not much good at either. Wasn't Abu Ghraib operated by U.S. Army Military Police?

                          I'm afraid that your knowledge of the crucial matters of jurisprudence and Criminal Law procedure are somewhat lacking. What is your practical experience investigating homicides? What is your training in statutory interpretation?

                          I hope you're doing better in the medical field.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 4:17 pm ET)
                          6  
                          I have repeatedly said I have a MA in Criminal Justice, not law. These bozos don't know the difference.
                          I know! Wait...now you say this...
                          BA Criminal Justice Administration Central Missouri State University, MA criminal Justice Administration University of Missouri Columbia
                          What's your masters in again? And is it an MA because everthing I can see shows the masters level degree in criminal justice as an MS.

                          You should stop now.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:38 pm ET)
                              10
                            My actual degree is a MSCJ if you want to get technical.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 4:41 pm ET)
                              8  
                              Technical? Or just correct? I mean you repeatedly stated it was an MA. Stupid fu(k.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 8:53 pm ET)
                              4  
                              My actual degree is a MSCJ if you want to get technical.
                              Now that he had someone Google it for him.
                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:11 am ET)
                            3  
                            And is it an MA because everthing I can see shows the masters level degree in criminal justice as an MS.
                            Meh, arts, science, whatever. To a Republicon, they are both just as useless.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 5:01 pm ET)
                          4  
                          Your posts here belie what you just posted.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 2:22 pm ET)
                        8  
                        In this thread he claimed to have that degree.

                        Then tried to claim it was from Columbia and then backtracked as even he knew that was not plausible.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:33 pm ET)
                            12
                          it was a joke holy crap
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 4:23 pm ET)
                            7  
                            it was a joke holy crap
                            I see. So this is serious?
                            MA criminal Justice Administration University of Missouri Columbia
                            If that's the case, care to point out that course here?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:40 pm ET)
                                11
                              It's actually a MSCJ and it's from 10 years again I don't see it listed that way anymore.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:45 pm ET)
                                  9
                                Damn 14 years ago not 10. Hate getting old. I’m not seeing they even have that program anymore.
                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 5:04 pm ET)
                                6  
                                I have repeatedly said I have a MA in Criminal Justice


                                OOPSY!
                                Report Abuse
                            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 8:55 pm ET)
                              3  
                              Gosh, they don't seem to offer anything in the way of criminal justice. Maybe I am looking it up wrong? Perhaps highliter can link us to the page.
                              Report Abuse
                        • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:35 pm ET)
                          10  
                          Gosh highliter. You would think you could remember what school you went to. I am guessing that the rest of your "pedigree" is just as false?
                          Fortunately for you, you are anonymous here. Add that it is doubtful that the military would waste the resources to track you down, even though they could, if they wanted to. Impersonating an officer is extremely illegal.

                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 3:10 pm ET)
                          7  
                          Haha, another right wing 'joke' that doesn't in any way resemble a 'joke' as we humans understand the concept.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by oprman (March 27, 2012 2:24 pm ET)
                        6  
                        and while you're at it, lemme see your birth certificate
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 2:02 pm ET)
                      7  
                      You showed no understanding of the word "anonymous."

                      You might wish to curb the claims of higher education, an understanding of crime investigation procedure, and calling others "bozos" until you do.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:12 pm ET)
                        1 11
                        Anonymous in terms of witness or statements in the Criminal justice world means the POLICE don’t know who they are, not the damn Media.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:22 pm ET)
                          4  
                          lol. Now move the goalpost and fit the defitnition to fit your purpose. If he gave an account to the police it's obvious the police knew who he was.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:35 pm ET)
                              10
                            BINGO the police knew therfore its not anonymous!!!!
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 2:40 pm ET)
                              6  
                              BINGO the police knew therfore its not anonymous!!!!

                              Even if that's how the word is applied in "The Criminal Justice World", in all your years of training and practice in Criminal Justice Administration did you never learn to distinguish between common and specialized usages of words like "anonymous"?

                              This is a discussion forum on a website about media, not "The Criminal Justice World."
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:41 pm ET)
                              4  
                              Where was it alleged that he was anonymous to the police?
                              Report Abuse
                        • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 2:23 pm ET)
                          4  
                          Tell me more about this Criminal Justice World. Where did you study, specifically, this particular usage of the word "anonymous"?
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 2:31 pm ET)
                          5  
                          Anonymous.

                          Your link? Because a second search on the ol' Google with the terms "anonymous," "criminal," "justice," "investigation," and "definition" didn't provide anything new.

                          It did provide a few hits to Anonymous Tip Lines where the promise was made that "your identity will be kept secret."
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:51 pm ET)
                              10
                            anonymous (əˈnɒnɪməs)

                            — adj
                            1. from or by a person, author, etc, whose name is unknown or withheld: an anonymous letter


                            The author (witness) in this case did not withhold their name from the police therefore the witness is not anonymous.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 2:58 pm ET)
                              9  
                              The author (witness) in this case did not withhold their name from the police therefore the witness is not anonymous.
                              But the police withheld it from the public. Therefore anonymous. D!ck.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 3:06 pm ET)
                                1 10
                                The person or author of the statement is known! Just because you don't know who it is doesn't make it anonymous.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:13 pm ET)
                                  7  
                                  What is the witnesses name highliter?
                                  Report Abuse
                                • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 3:17 pm ET)
                                  9  
                                  The person or author of the statement is known! Just because you don't know who it is doesn't make it anonymous.

                                  Exactly, highliter. Even if the police don't know the name of a witness, someone does. Therefore the person or author of the statement is always known. Therefore, there's no such thing as an anonymous witness. Right? Right.

                                  I sure hope you didn't actually pay money for that education of yours.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 3:21 pm ET)
                                    6  
                                    Whenever I see a quote or a poem or any other work attributed to "anonymous" I just scoff. All they had to do was ask, because, as highliter is proving so effectively here, there's no such thing as "anonymous".
                                    Report Abuse
                                • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 3:20 pm ET)
                                  6  
                                  Gotcha.

                                  Mark Felt wasn't an anonymous source because Woodward and Bernstein knew who he was.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 3:22 pm ET)
                                    6  
                                    Mark Felt wasn't an anonymous source because Woodward and Bernstein knew who he was.

                                    No no no, you're getting ahead of yourself. Mark Felt wasn't an anonymous source first and foremost because Mark Felt knew his own name.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 3:48 pm ET)
                                      4  
                                      Quite the mind boggling observation to be offering on an anonymous Internet comments section, dontchaknow.
                                      Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:00 pm ET)
                              4  
                              Where was it alleged that he was anonymous to the police!
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:10 pm ET)
                              4  
                              Wow! When a reporter protects the identity of a source isn't it because the person wants to remain anonymous? The reporter knows who the person is but the public doesn't. WTF don't you get about that!
                              Report Abuse
                    • Author by westmassman (March 27, 2012 3:19 pm ET)
                      6  
                      highliter is starting to sound a lot like the famous Dr. Squawks
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 3:23 pm ET)
                        5  
                        I'll say this; the very first word of the title of this article, "Confounded," well, nothing could suit the hi-ster more.
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 4:59 pm ET)
                      5  
                      I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you have a MA in Criminal Justice. Your posts don't appear to be those of someone with any kind of degree at all.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 5:04 pm ET)
                        5  
                        Yeah, but you are the only one that thinks that. LOL
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by highlyunlikely (March 27, 2012 5:04 pm ET)
                        5  
                        congratulations, bintx: you're the winner of the understatement of the day award.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 9:00 pm ET)
                        3  
                        Hell with that, his posts don't appear to be those of someone with any education at all.
                        Report Abuse
            • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 12:53 pm ET)
              11  
              My god you people are so stupid, if the police know who the witness is then they are not anonymous.

              If the police are not releasing the name of a witness, they are working to protect that person's anonymity. You have absolutely no business calling anyone stupid.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 1:34 pm ET)
                7  
                I wasn't even sure what LowLifer was trying to argue there. I don't think he was even sure.

                The police are withholding the identity of the person whose identitiy they don't know? Huh?
                I'm guessing he blames autocorrect, or the glare from his teakettle-shaped swimming pool.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 2:36 pm ET)
                  7  
                  Dang, every troll that shows up here, has all these dang, darn, impressive DEGREES, in nearly everything, us normal folks, don't stand a chance in a debate, with em.
                  Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 11:46 am ET)
          14 1
          There were several other witnesses, 911 tapes, the young man's girlfriend and at least one dispatcher who refute what this witness said.

          As soon as Zimmerman disregarded the dispatcher's admonition that they didn't need him to follow the young man, he lost any claim of self-defense. He was stalking this young man. A young man, who I might add, was the only one who had any business in the gated community where he was stalked and murdered. He was an invited guest there. Zimmerman was not. He didn't live in the community.

          Still keeping it stupid, I see, highliter. You gonna post a link which refutes your position for us?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:52 am ET)
            14 1
            His girlfriend was black, so highliter only gives her version 3/5 the validity of Zimmerman's.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 12:06 pm ET)
            9  
            I hadn't heard all the details, b, have been busy and just seen mainstream media accounts. I was under the impression that Zimmerman lived there, and Martin was cutting through a gated community.

            Not that that scenario would excuse Zimmerman's actions, but if your facts are right, that makes it much more shocking that Zimmerman has been treated so delicately.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 12:17 pm ET)
              9 1
              Not according to what I heard reported yesterday. Martin was visiting his father's fiance who lived in the gated community. Zimmerman saw him and started following him.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 7:42 am ET)
                4  
                Standfor Police Chief Bill Lee, attended an emergency NHW meeting, requested by a resident complaining about Zimmerman's tactics in his neighborhood watch captain role.

                That neighborhood was holding meetings, allowed Zimmerman to appoint himself "Captain", but they were not registered with the National Neighborhood Association.

                Also, Zimmerman did not take the NHW training program offered by the Sheriffs Office.

                Chris Tulko, director of Neighborhood Watch, for the National "Zimmerman broke cardinal rules" one, being armed with a gun.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 7:53 am ET)
                  3  
                  Sorry, S/B Sanford Police

                  Chris Tulko, director of Neighborhood Watch, for the National Sheriff's Association, said "Zimmerman broke cardinal rules."

                  Besides my cursor jumping all over the place lately, the site is POSTING when I hit preview.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by stefiz (March 27, 2012 12:29 pm ET)
              10  
              Martin was shot 15 feet from his fathers back door...
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 12:33 pm ET)
              11  
              Andy, did you hear about Zimmerman's attorney storming off the set, just minutes before he was to appear on The Last Word with L.O.

              The crap they are spewing now is that the kid attacked Zimmerman. I do not believe an unarmed kid would "back track" to within 15 feet of his home, to attack a 28 year old man, that weighed a 100 lbs more (and probably taller) than he was.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 12:41 pm ET)
                10  
                If Martin attacked Zimmerman, then the girlfriend's statement that Martin asked "Why are you following me?" and Zimmerman's response "What are you doing here?" before anyone was shoved couldn't have happened the way the lawyers are trying to make us believe.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 1:19 pm ET)
                  7  
                  MiniTru, you are absolutely right. Besides Zimmerman is 11 years older, 100 lb heavier. He's had more experience in fighting, and altercations, too. But still felt he had to kill the unarmed, smaller, kid.

                  In 2005 Zimmerman was arrested for assaulting a police officer, and resisting arrest. When he butted in when a friend was in a dispute with law enforcement. Zimmerman opted for, and completed a diversion type program, so the charges were dropped and his record expunged.

                  I'm so hoping that they get a ruling to over ride that expungement, so the jury can here about that arrest.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 1:32 pm ET)
                    5  
                    Unless he introduces character evidence in his defence prior convictions are inadmissible at trial (unless they have strict probative value that places the offence being tried as part of a pattern of behaviour i.e. a sequence of identical acts).

                    Prior bad acts are, however, extremely relevant in sentencing.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 1:38 pm ET)
                      3  
                      What about this taken along with the police charge that may show a pattern of angry agressive behavior?
                      Your text to link here...
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 4:12 pm ET)
                        3  
                        A prosecutor could try, but it would most likely get knocked back - the only way it would get in is as "evidence of similar fact" and the criteria are usually pretty tight no matter which jurisdiction.

                        It must be emphasised that the defendant is tried only for the matter on the charge sheet. Essentially all other matters are irrelevant - different circumstances. The time to bring up prior bad acts is at sentencing.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 6:03 pm ET)
                        4  
                        Congero, reading that link and looking at that big thug's picture. I would think he would be prefer the murder charge, than to admit that kid beat him up, pounded his head on the cement, and broke his nose. How humiliating for him, no wonder he shot him.
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 1:50 pm ET)
                      5  
                      Right, could play a part in the verdict. Maybe?

                      His attorney's are already introducing his character, playing him up to be this wonderful hero, in another situation, regarding a suspect,(in his old neighborhood) so no doubt they will at trial.

                      I think in this case a charachter profile of Zimmerman will play a big part.

                      His 46 911 calls in 2011, that not one resulted in an arrest of a suspect. And his fixation on African Americans in those calls.

                      Even Chris Tulko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs Association, made a public statement that "Zimmerman broke cardinal rules." one being armed with a gun.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 1:58 pm ET)
                          11
                        The jury will never hear aobut the prior arrest.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 2:00 pm ET)
                          7  
                          Which jury? Grand Jury, or the trial jury? And what's your proof?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:30 pm ET)
                            1 11
                            Neither will hear about it. Neither past arrest nor convictions are usually allowed in court, they are viewed as too prejudicial to the defendant. As stated in grmce post evidence like this is usually only allowed when the defense introduces character in their defense. It appears Zimmerman is going to use the self defense strategy; therefore his prior arrest won't be allowed as evidence.

                            There have been murder trials were previous murder arrest were not allowed in as evidence .
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 3:06 pm ET)
                              8  
                              Oh, thanks highliter, I've never been in a court house, let alone, met a prosecutor, or watched a jury trial. Or read, prepared, and filed, motions, orders, petitions, subpoenas, or any other legal document, of any sort, so I really appreciate the info.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by Another_Cat (March 27, 2012 3:10 pm ET)
                              8  
                              I don't think the words you are using mean what you think they mean...

                              "The jury will NEVER hear about..." and
                              "Niether WILL hear about it." both indicate an absolute certainty about the subject, but then you follow it with:

                              "Niether past arrest no convictions are USUALLY allowed..." meaning that sometimes they are, which completely belies the certainty professed earlier. Also, "It APPEARS..." is also a term fraught with uncertainty, and the statement it is attached to (using the self-defense strategy) is the basis for your certain argument of "...won't be allowed as evidence."

                              So, your're certain the jury will never hear about it...except that sometimes they do...but they might use the self-defense strategy, and if they do...then it's certain the evidence won't be allowed?

                              If that's your "proof" in response to Bronwyn, I smell fail.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 3:28 pm ET)
                                5  
                                Oh that was excellent. Now ask him about petition to vacate....reverse rulings...overturn etc. I'm too tired to make sense. Haven't slept in two days, again!
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 3:32 pm ET)
                                  5  
                                  Vacate as in an expungement order, not as in vacate the court house. LOL.! Thanks Cat
                                  Report Abuse
                            • Author by highlyunlikely (March 27, 2012 4:03 pm ET)
                              4  
                              add "pattern of behavior" to the list of what hi's never heard of.
                              Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 2:08 pm ET)
                          6  
                          OK Mr. MA has ruled! lol.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 4:18 pm ET)
                        4  
                        Bronnie, I suspect his legal team are trying it on - get it out what a wonderful guy he is to the uncritical media. When it comes to a trial you can bet your little white booties that the defence will not call any character evidence because as soon as they do it's open season for the prosecution to attack his character in all its smelly glory with skeletons tumbling out of closets left, right and centre.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 4:55 pm ET)
                          3  
                          My booty ain't all that white, ;>), or my booties, but I completely hear what you are saying.

                          This Stand Your Ground law stinks so bad. But I keep thinking about other felony crime cases. where they piled on other charges, even if the major one, they were going for wouldn't stick. They managed to convict on a lesser. I'm thinking of stalking, harassment, etc. If the SYG gets him off on the murder, surely they can go for something else. I'm too tired to think straight and you know more about it than I do but look at this. I just don't want to except him getting off scott free.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by yoiksaway (March 27, 2012 6:41 pm ET)
                            4  
                            "BA Criminal Justice Administration..MA criminal Justice Administration..4 years Military Police, 2 years MP CID 7 years probation and Parole..Member of the National Guard."--highliter

                            Whether true or not, I smell authoritarianism.

                            highliter and ravenrog are in such a pickle at this point. With they and their favored sources giving mixed messages (or no message), with no unified thoughtlet, now what? It must be frustrating. They want to treat the topic as a puzzle piece that fits into a favored and grand narrative. How, oh how, is this the enemy's fault?

                            Of course, justice fits in there somewhere, but don't go there until ready to take a position. Odd that rendering justice IS the position, but that topic is shelved until it can be used as a tool for some other cause.

                            Again, take a position, THEN mete out justice accordingly, which is when this stops being a justice issue. It becomes an authoritarian issue.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 6:22 pm ET)
                          3  
                          gmce, just now a breaking news (ABC) up date, said that it is now known that the lead investigator recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, that night, and had actually filed an affidavit, stating that he was unconvinced of Zimmerman's account of the events. And his superiors claimed their wasn't enough evidence.

                          If they had an internal debate that night, that is going to throw a big damper in some of the claims they have since made.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 7:49 pm ET)
                            3  
                            Bronnie, I'm not surprised. The whole lack of investigative rigour has a decidedly foul odour. Forget about Denmark - something is stinking rotten in Sanford, Florida.

                            I do believe that the abhorrent nature of the "stand your ground" legislation had a tendency to nobble the investigation over its perversion of the plea of self-defence but the all around sloppiness that is evident (the failure to identify the victim is possibly the most egregious) is most disturbing.

                            More significant than the guilt of Zimmerman (I still have this vision of an aged character in mask and tights shuffling around this gated community on his walking frame demanding everyone explain their presence) will be the investigation into the procedural failures of the police and any other systemic and personnel problems that may exist. It is feasible that this could have quite serious repercussions. The DOJ investigation could possibly look at this - not so much the civil rights of Trayvon Martin as those of his parents and the unnecessary anguish they suffered due to the contempt with which his shooting and the common decencies towards his family were treated.
                            Report Abuse
            • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 1:09 pm ET)
              7  
              Andy, "I hadn't heard all the details..." Well, here you can get lots of details and educated by an expert.

              No need to thank me, Andy ;>)
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 1:21 pm ET)
                6 1
                Haha, I'd seen the "Blame the Hoodie" angle. From the 'personal responsibility" people, the "Guns Don't Kill People" people, the same clowns who can't connect BilldO Reilly calling Dr. Tiller a murderer to BilldO's fan executing the death penalty -- nobody but the person who pulls the trigger has blood on their hands.

                But in defense of Zimmerman? The hoodie gave him no choice.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 1:33 pm ET)
                  7  
                  No, the real details and expert education is the 400 posts. The expert on the "Florida Law" that's irrelevant, expert. Brabantio, Curiousindependant and I wore ourselves out on that one.

                  And how I figured out who ilovedoughnuts's sister is.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 1:39 pm ET)
                    4  
                    Do tell!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 1:54 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Hey, it started with your post, trouble maker. LOL
                      Did you follow the rest of it?
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 2:02 pm ET)
                    5  
                    Ah, I just looked at the headline. I'll have to check out the comments. Liberal lefty loons ahoy! Pukes and mutants!

                    ....

                    Wow, just skimmed through. Glad I missed that one. ;0)
                    Report Abuse
        • Author by Brabantio (March 27, 2012 11:52 am ET)
          14 1
          Does it strike you as odd that the same police department that's been under fire for their handling of this case suddenly produces a witness that counters all previous accounts and makes them look better?

          Not saying it isn't the truth, but it reeks of desperation.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Tony195616 (March 27, 2012 12:07 pm ET)
            7  
            In any case, a ballistics test is done on a gun isn't it? Why does Zimmerman still have the gun in his possession? He says that Trayvon tried to grab it. Did the police do any fingerprint analysis?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (March 27, 2012 12:19 pm ET)
              10  
              This is one of my big issues with this story. The law is the law, stupid as it may be. Even bearing the law in mind, the police still have to do some basic investigation to see if his story makes the least bit of sense, is consistent with forensics, logistics, witness accounts, etc. You take the damn gun, for sure. I don't know if an actual ballistics test is necessary if it's admitted to be the weapon that killed him, but I would think the fingerprint issue requires examination.

              I just don't believe that the law allows the police to hear the words "I felt threatened" and then send the guy who just took a life off with a pat on the back. That sure seems to be the way that night went in this case, though.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:28 pm ET)
                6  
                Yes I agree. Wouldn't there be evidence to show how far away the shooter was when the gun was fired? The position of the body,at what angle the shot was fired? How many shots? Wouldn't you take the gun to test and see if the bullet lodged in Martins chest actually came from that gun? It seems like the police were quick to believe Zimmemans story.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 12:51 pm ET)
                  1 15
                  Wouldn't there be evidence to show how far away the shooter was when the gun was fired? The position of the body,at what angle the shot was fired


                  Yes that evidence would be on Martins body, if the shot took place at point blank rage there will be powder burns on the victim’s body and clothing.

                  How many shots


                  Already known

                  Wouldn't you take the gun to test and see if the bullet lodged in Martins chest actually came from that gun?

                  Again there is no reason to do this it’s already know.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:11 pm ET)
                    10  
                    Again there is no reason to do this it’s already know (sic).
                    You really have no standing to call anyone else stupid.

                    Zimmerman claimed that Martin attempted to take the gun from him. If that were true, there would be fingerprints on the gun. The police should have taken the gun to test it for fingerprints at least.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 1:54 pm ET)
                      1 11
                      Completely irrelevant, the lack of or presents of fingerprints on the gun mean nothing, It’s possible martin didn’t touch the gun while trying to take it away, and it possible that Zimmerman could have put martins hands on the gun himself after the killing. You watch too much CSI.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 3:01 pm ET)
                        6  
                        My God, man. Would you PLEASE learn spelling and word usage before you try to appear as if you have a brain? And seriously, stop insinuating that anyone else is stupid. You are most definitely not qualified.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 3:11 pm ET)
                          1 8
                          My GOD may stop fixating over spelling and address the substance of the post!
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:19 pm ET)
                            7  
                            The substance of your post is wrong since the gun was taken. Please explain also how a policeman or investigator can tell that the gun at the site is the one that fired the bullet in the chest of a person without seeing the bullet and checking the gun?
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 4:37 pm ET)
                            6  
                            My GOD may stop fixating over spelling and address the substance of the post!


                            Ever notice it's only the semi-literate people who say things like this?

                            If you don't care enough to learn to communicate properly, why on earth should we listen to what you have to say?

                            You know, be a good Republican and take responsibility for yourself and admit that the treatment you get from us is the treatment you deserve.

                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 5:14 pm ET)
                            5  
                            There is no substance to your posts.

                            BTW, the police investigator filed an affidavit on the night of the crime stating that he wanted to file manslaughter charges against Zimmerman, but the State Attorney refused to allow the charge.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by motorcity (March 27, 2012 5:19 pm ET)
                            5  
                            My GOD may stop fixating over spelling and address the substance of the post!


                            ...OTOH, He might not. Who knows? Mysterious ways and all, you know?
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 5:49 pm ET)
                            4  
                            Why would I not? You claim to be a college graduate AND a member of law enforcement, but my 6 year old spells and understands words better than you.

                            And why would I address your post otherwise? You have already FREQUENTLY shown yourself to be immune to logic and facts; I don't see any sense in wasting my time and effort refuting your idiotic assumptions.
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 3:08 pm ET)
                        5  
                        and it possible that Zimmerman could have put martins hands on the gun himself after the killing
                        LOL!
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Brabantio (March 27, 2012 5:07 pm ET)
                        5  
                        The absence of prints on the gun would cause Zimmerman to have to elaborate on his story. If he was lying, that's the type of situation where he might get tripped up.

                        This is part of investigation.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 27, 2012 6:56 pm ET)
                          3 1
                          Brab, don't take him seriously. He's exaggerating he's nothing more than jonimacaroni's law clerk.

                          BTW, if you aren't watching the news there was just BREAKING NEWS (ABC) that the lead investigator did in fact file an affidavit that night, stating that he was not convinced of Zimmerman's account of the events and wanted him charged with manslaughter. And his authorities claimed there wasn't enough evidence. So there was an internal debate going on with the law enforcement that night.

                          No wonder the lead investigator stepped down he definitely would have be getting crap from both ends.
                          Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 1:17 pm ET)
                    5  
                    highliter you are so full s**t it hurts:
                    by aBeck in 10-O-C (34 minutes ago)
                    4

                    Mother Jones has confirmed that the police seized Zimmerman's gun.
                    Not mentioned was WHEN the gun was siezed. He still has his license to carry and with it, by Florida law, can legally buy another without a waiting period.

                    I did some research last night and found a few-days-old local news station video on their interview with the witness.

                    From the transcript of the news segment.


                    The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't want to be shown on camera.

                    "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help'…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

                    Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

                    "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.


                    Adding a note of confusion was the online copy of the police report.
                    In the "offenses section" of police report it reads as:
                    Homicide-negligent manslaughter-unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.

                    --------------------------------------------

                    Already known? Really the police can tell without testing that a bullet lodged in someones chest is the same type of bullet from a gun by just looking at it? Dude you really sholuld get your monmey back from that online class..

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 1:20 pm ET)
                      4  
                      money! lol.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 2:03 pm ET)
                      6  
                      That account from "John" is irrelevant to any claim of self-defence by Zimmerman.

                      Martin, an adolescent male African-American, found himself being stalked in the dark by an armed man. As has been pointed out by many learned commentators, to run, for him, was to invite a bullet in the back. Put simply, Zimmerman's actions would have put any African-American male of Martin's age in fear for his life. The recounted telephone conversation with his girlfriend backs this up.

                      Under the standard Common Law definition of self-defence Martin was within his rights to take whatever action he thought was necessary to defend his life. The action described by "John" would be well within the bounds of appropriate action against an armed stranger who was stalking him.

                      Adrenalin would have been his only weapon against this terrifying gunman.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:45 pm ET)
                        1 7
                        From what I read from Johns account Zimmerman didn’t have his gun out when he was hit by Martin. How would Martin know Zimmerman was armed?

                        The action described by "John" would be well within the bounds of appropriate action against an armed stranger who was stalking him.

                        Possibly, but again how would Martin know Zimmerman was armed. It is not against the law to follow someone and ask what they are doing. Nor would it be reasonable to hit someone who simply asked what you're doing here? If he had the gun out that would be a completely different story.

                        The point is we don't know what happened yet Everyone needs to stop making assumptions
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:33 pm ET)
                          6  
                          Making assumptions? You just made a bunch. We do know that Martin thought that a strange man was following him, as per his girlfriend via cell phone, we know that he eventually ran and Zimmerman ran after him and said these a-holes always get away and mumbled something under his breath to the effect of f'ing c--ns or goons(which according to his friend are terms of endearment.lol) via 911 call. We know that Zimmerman caught up with and Martin asked why he was being followed and Zimmerman responded what are you doing here? We know for a fact that Martin had no legal reason to answer Zimmerman about where he was going or what he was doing and Zimmerman had no authority to detain or approach him. We know that according to the girlfriend Zimmerman pushed Martin and the phone went dead. Momments later she called and got no answer.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 3:45 pm ET)
                              7
                            We know for a fact that Martin had no legal reason to answer Zimmerman about where he was going or what he was doing and Zimmerman had no authority to detain or approach him.


                            Detain no, approach and question yes. You don’t need any type of authority to ask someone what they are doing there.

                            We know that according to the girlfriend Zimmerman pushed Martin


                            We have absolutely no way of knowing who pushed who.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:57 pm ET)
                              5  
                              And there was no legal reason for Martin to answer a stranger who he thought was stalking him. Molester,robber, thug? There was nothing that signaled who Zimmerman was and he violated Neighborhood watch principals, one of which was carrying a firearm.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:00 pm ET)
                                3  
                                Oh and tell us the name of the police witness since they are not anonymous. Zimmerman made calls to 911 before giving his name yet asked to remain anonymous because he lived in the neighborhood and didn't want his neighbors to know. I do you square that with your defitnition?
                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:01 pm ET)
                                  7
                                And there was no legal reason for Martin to answer a stranger who he thought was stalking him. Molester,robber, thug?


                                you right he dosent have to answer.

                                There was nothing that signaled who Zimmerman was and he violated Neighborhood watch principals, one of which was carrying a firearm.


                                Again nothing illegal about any of that.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:08 pm ET)
                                  8  
                                  Nothing illegal? He was acting under the cover and authority of a neighborhood watch program I thought, yet he was making his own rules. It shows Zimmerman wasn't acting proplerly and in line with the principals of neighborhood watch but more like a vigilante.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 6:00 pm ET)
                                    5  
                                    Consider also that not only did Zimmerman NOT live in that community, but he was not appointed by that community as a member of it's neighborhood watch. If the community even had one. If either of the individuals had no right to be in that place, it was Zimmerman.

                                    And you tell me, highliter. If you are walking along and notice someone stalking you, are you just going to belly-up and let them do what they want with you?
                                    Report Abuse
                                • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 4:10 pm ET)
                                  8  
                                  Someone else was doing nothing illegal.

                                  Trayvon Martin.
                                  Report Abuse
                            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 5:57 pm ET)
                              3  
                              In fact, Martin had every reason to believe that he was about to be either abducted, molested, or killed. He had every reason to fear for his life.

                              And he would have been correct.

                              I wonder how you would be spinning this if it had been Zimmerman who had died that night.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:53 am ET)
                              3  
                              Detain no, approach and question yes
                              Ah, no. Although you CLAIM to be in law enforcement, you don't seem to know a whole lot about it. Neighborhood Watch members are prohibited from interfering with any suspicious person or activity. Their ONLY duty is to contact the pertinent authorities and keep an eye SAFELY on any suspicious activity until the proper authorities arrive. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should any community watch member approach a suspicious individual or activity.

                              Also, under no circumstances should any community watch member be armed.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 10:24 am ET)
                                   
                                Great point, Mike, wish Joni had read this on that other blog thread. Have you noticed she's no where to be see?

                                Plus
                                1) they are not to be armed with a gun.
                                2) They are supposed to take the NHW training offered by the Sheriff's office.
                                3) The NHW association should be and this one wasn't, registered with the National Neighborhood Watch Association.

                                According to Chris Tulko, directer of National Neighborhood Watch Associations, these independent NHW groups, are in most cases a hindrance and make it difficult for the intentions of the actual registered NHW.
                                Report Abuse
                        • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 3:35 pm ET)
                          6  
                          Oh good lord! We know Zimmerman was stalking him!

                          It's night, you've got a stranger, tracking your every step, and somehow we're supposed to accept the idea that Zimmerman was just behaving reasonably and Martin had no reason to be alarmed?
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Disputed Zone (March 27, 2012 3:48 pm ET)
                          6  
                          We know that Trayvon Martin is dead. We know if George Zimmerman had done as he was told and let the police handle the situation Trayvon Martin would probably be alive.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 4:36 pm ET)
                            4  
                            Well if nothing else it could make an interesting tutorial question. Hopefully, however, this whole tragedy will wake a few people up to the fact that U.S. society is crumbling and it ain't the fault of "the usual suspects".

                            Look to the smug, the self-righteous, the comfortably off, the would-be rugged individual. Look to the self-proclaimed God-fearing "nice" people because in there with a lot of decent-hearted well-meaning types there is a nest of vipers that has poisoned many communities to the point where anti-social behaviour has taken on a cloak of respectability and dysfunction rules.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 5:54 pm ET)
                          3  
                          Funny that the OTHER witness accounts differ greatly from "John". THEY say that Zimmerman was sitting on top of Martin and that Martin was screaming for help. In fact, you can hear it on one of the 911 tapes, cut off abruptly by what sounds suspiciously like a firearm report.

                          Seems to me that Zimmerman WAS, indeed, fearful. He was fearful that the cries for help would bring in bystanders who might interfere with his righteous killing of a n****r that he had caught fair and square.

                          And not by the toe.

                          I know, I know. I am a bad man.

                          Sue me.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 7:56 pm ET)
                          5  
                          highliter

                          From what I read from Johns account Zimmerman didn’t(sic) have his gun out when he was hit by Martin. How would Martin know Zimmerman was armed?
                          According to the reports the pistol was worn exposed on the hip. That would have probably been visible at least in silhouette.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 9:07 pm ET)
                            3  
                            Golly, another clue that "John" might not be telling the truth, eh?

                            And, as if we needed it, more proof that highliter is an idiot.
                            Report Abuse
              • Author by SMTDL (March 27, 2012 12:37 pm ET)
                7  
                My feelings exactly Brabantino.Shouldn't they have at least taken him to the station to record his statement on tape and to take pictures of his injuries as well as keep the gun for ballistics testing,even if they felt it might be self defense and didn't arrest him?What about the fact that they did no drug testing of Zimmerman,while they tested Martin?Why did they not even try to ascertain Martin's identity from the cell phone and notify his family??That is unbelievable that they just put him in the morgue and ignored his family.Even after his father had reported him missing, it was at least the next day before they came to show him the pictures of his dead son!How long does it take to connect the dots of missing teen and dead teen at same location?Why did they not reveiw the cell phone log at least for some information that could have been important to establishing what happened?Even if they were right about self-defense they made it all worse with such an incompetent investigation!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 12:54 pm ET)
                  1 13
                  Shouldn't they have at least taken him to the station to record his statement on tape and to take pictures of his injuries as well as keep the


                  They did.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 1:09 pm ET)
                    8  
                    Uh-huh. Did the Black Panthers steal the photos?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:12 pm ET)
                      9  
                      Yes, they did. All five of the New Black Panthers stole the photos.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 5:17 pm ET)
                    3  
                    And the police investigator filed an affidavit saying that he wanted to file manslaughter charges against him, but the state attorney told him no.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 8:54 am ET)
                      2  
                      Yeah, apparently the dead body of an unarmed teen wasn't enough evidence.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by SMTDL (March 29, 2012 12:41 pm ET)
                       

                    'They did.'

                    Then I can't wait to see pictures of the injuries that weren't visible in the video of him being brought into the station!

                    And what about ballistics tests and residue testing of Zimmerman's hands?
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by dazednamused (March 27, 2012 7:43 pm ET)
                  2  
                  I admit that one thing I am having a hard time understanding is this: If Martin was killed 15 feet from the door to his father's fiance's house, how come no one in that house eventually come outside to see what happened when a gunshot went off? Maybe I missed something where it was stated that no one was home. Police tend to canvass an area after a shooting, so why didn't they go to a house that was 15 feet away from the scene. It's all a bit fishy.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 8:56 am ET)
                    2  
                    I have wondered about that as well. It seems to me that the "15 feet" may very well be hyperbolic. But even given that, if Martin WAS near his destination, it does seem like, given the ruckus, his father and the fiancee might have come out to see what was going on.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 10:55 am ET)
                      2  
                      I watched a show where Mr. Martin, traced the trail of his son that night right up to the spot he was found dead. The victim's father said several times "15 more feet and he would have been home" "he was 15 feet from his home." I wondered that too, and missed the first part of the show, so I missed it if he ever mentioned why they didn't go outside. I just assumed they I weren't home.

                      I wondered why they didn't canvas the neighborhood, and why they didn't run the addresses through AIRS to get names of the residents in those homes (the ones that didn't answer during the canvasing) and most likely ages too, and if the one right by the body showed a teenage boy living there, etc, but they screwed up big time. And Trayvon's name would have shown up because, he has been questioned by police, and that alone w/h put his name, and any addresses, he stays at in the AIRS, LEDS, system.

                      I don't know, maybe, the father lives with the girlfriend because, the father kept referring it to "as his (victims) home"
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by SMTDL (March 28, 2012 12:58 pm ET)
                        2  
                        In the clip I saw of the father talking about the distance,he said "less than a football field" and then estimated it at 75 yards.Not sure it was close enough for the police to canvas about anyone having heard something,but there easily should have been a connection later when the father reported his son missing.It seems that they either ignored the mising person info or had to stall before making contact with the family to get their story/explanation straight!
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bronwyn (March 29, 2012 6:21 am ET)
                          2  
                          SMTDL, the one I watched the "less than a football field" was the distance Trayvon walked from the street, and made it all the way to within 15 feet of his home.

                          "Less than a football field" is the distance from the street.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by SMTDL (March 29, 2012 12:37 pm ET)
                            1  
                            I think the 15 feet was how far the fight was from a witnesses' open windows!Otherwise the father woudl have heard the gunshot..at 10 or so other families heard it!
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Bronwyn (March 29, 2012 1:23 pm ET)
                                 
                              SMTDL, THANK YOU, for saying something you are absolutely right. I found it and listened again.

                              Trayvon Martin's father retraces son's final steps

                              I think since I watched it I've been hearing 15' in the media. I don't know where I got it, but appreciate you pointing out the error. There is way too much misinformation going around. Thanks again.
                              Report Abuse
                • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 8:06 am ET)
                  2  
                  What about the fact that they did no drug testing of Zimmerman,while they tested Martin?
                  In light of the suspension for a baggie with pot residue, I wonder why the toxicology report on that hasn't come out. I know that marijuana shows up in your system for 30 days after use, so if he was a regular pot head, then he should have had plenty of THC in his system.

                  Which would be another thing the Right Wing Propaganda Machine would be crowing about as a reason to shoot him.

                  Interesting that they haven't brought it up.
                  Report Abuse
        • Author by chazmanr (March 27, 2012 12:59 pm ET)
          7  
          So the witnesses were flowers?! I have heard of people talking to plants, but not the other way around.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by chazmanr (March 27, 2012 1:05 pm ET)
            5 1
            they took this witnesses stamens the night of the incident


            I see no point in arguing with a psychopath, so I am just pointing out that your spelling reflects your intellect and sanity.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:19 pm ET)
          7  
          Wow you are so wrong it's not even funny.
          I believe highliter is now in the echo stage, merely repeating things that have been said to him for years.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by whatIthink (March 27, 2012 1:53 pm ET)
          6  
          The police were also coaching the witness.

          An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said.
          [snip]
          Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.
          The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.


          Source

          Moron
          Report Abuse
        • Author by whatIthink (March 27, 2012 1:56 pm ET)
          7  
          By the way, this how the police handle a Stand Your Ground case in Florida when it's a black man who does the shooting. See the difference? And people say it has nothing to do with race. Fricking retards (and no, I don't mean that sarcastically).
          Report Abuse
          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 2:09 pm ET)
              6
            Dooley was not arrested on the spot as several of the witness statements were conflicting.



            hrmm sounds familiar.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Johaely (March 27, 2012 2:44 pm ET)
              2  
              To what?
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 2:58 pm ET)
              6  
              hrmm sounds familiar.


              This is why people who get paid to write stuff on the Internet are smarter than you.

              From the story itself:
              Sounds familiar doesn't it? Except for one thing, Dooley is having his day in court to prove his case before a judge and jury.


              You see, the smart person knew enough to follow up the "sounds familiar" bit with some more information. You? You just gave us dead space.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 3:57 pm ET)
                  5
                and this case goes to the grand jury april 10th
                Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:02 pm ET)
                  7  
                  Thanks to the publicity.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:13 pm ET)
                      7
                    You keep saying that but you have no idea what was going on at the DAs office.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:13 pm ET)
                      7
                    You keep saying that but you have no idea what was going on at the DAs office.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highlyunlikely (March 27, 2012 4:17 pm ET)
                      8  
                      ...where someone finally decided they had no choice but to respond to all the pressure. Presto: free speech in action.

                      Double post - the only one on this thread - noted.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:28 pm ET)
                      5  
                      Yes I keep saying that and obviously the city council and the state feel the same way or they wouldn't be sending a special investigator to take over the case. The city council has asked the police chief to step down in light of a vote of no confidence.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 6:06 pm ET)
                      5  
                      No, actually we DO know what was going on.

                      Bupkis.

                      The Sanford PD and the DA had already written this off as your average self defense, and were not going to do ANYTHING. If the parents had not brought the case to the attention of the national media, Zimmerman would never have got another moment's scrutiny.

                      Until he did it again.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:24 pm ET)
                1  
                This is why people who get paid to write stuff on the Internet are smarter than you.
                People who paint walls with their feces are generally smarter than highliter.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by whatIthink (March 27, 2012 3:51 pm ET)
              5  
              He was arrested two days later.

              hmmmm, how longs has it been Trayvons shooting?

              Report Abuse
        • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:42 pm ET)
          5  
          It is extrememly hilarious to me that, despite several witnesses claiming that the police altered their statements (not their stamens, their statements. You would think that a college graduate could freaking SPELL) to be more in line with Zimmerman's claim of self defense, you seem to think that this guy that they just happen to have put forth (anonymously, so any interested media can't question him to ascertain the veracity of his claims) a month after the fact is credible.

          But then, your every post has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a moron, so at least it doesn't surprise me.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 3:55 pm ET)
              5
            you seem to think that this guy that they just happen to have put forth (anonymously, so any interested media can't question him to ascertain the veracity of his claims) a month after the fact is credible.


            The police had this witness statement the night of the incident, so it's not a month after, the media didn't find out about it for a month but the police had it the whole time. It's not the medias job to question witness to crimes, that would be the investigators job not the damn media.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:20 pm ET)
              5  
              WAs that the night the police corrected another witness about who was calling for help? The police did a poor job and the leaking of this witness is just another attempt to cover up their sloppiness. Thats why the state is stepping in with a special investigator and police chief has stepped down after a vote of no confidence and the Feds are investigating. Finally the ball is rolling.
              I am still curious why(they have)you thought the police could tell that the bullet lodged in Trayvons chest came from the gun Zimmerman said by just looking?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:55 pm ET)
                  4
                leaking of this witness is just another attempt to cover up their sloppiness.


                No one leaked this witness he did a interview 2 days after the incident.

                am still curious why(they have)you thought the police could tell that the bullet lodged in Trayvons chest came from the gun Zimmerman said by just looking?


                Because Zimmerman admitted to shooting Martin with that gun.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highlyunlikely (March 27, 2012 5:03 pm ET)
                  4  
                  oh, my. I see someone's managed to create another stinky pile then step in it again and again.

                  What fascinates me about this case is how clear-cut it is, how it should legally play out, thus how much twisting, distorting, mangling, and convoluting has to be done in order to switch the guilty with the innocent to sway the public consensus.

                  Whatever degrees hi has or doesn't have, auditioning for defense attorney in a comments forum is no way to recoup your lost sanity.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 6:13 pm ET)
                  3 1
                  No one leaked this witness he did a interview 2 days after the incident
                  That's funny. Really funny. I just today heard a statement by the interim police chief. He was saying that it WAS leaked, and he couldn't speak to the source.

                  But I guess that you, with your "masters degree" from some university you can't remember, know far more about this case than the guy in charge of it.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 7:14 pm ET)
                  3  
                  Because Zimmerman admitted to shooting Martin with that gun. ---highliter


                  But maybe it was another weapon that wasn't registered that he shot with? Just maybe he was hiding something. Maybe,just maybe some investigation. But alas all your reasons why they didn't take his weapon falls flat because they did. Could it be they did want to check? lol.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by SMTDL (March 29, 2012 12:32 pm ET)
                  1  

                  'Because Zimmerman admitted to shooting Martin with that gun.'


                  So its supposed to be a fact because "he said so"!?That's not police work.It should have been determined by ballistics testing and testing Zimmerman's hands for gunpowder resdidue.What if Zimmerman was covering for someone else knowing his neighborhood watch status,the stand your ground law,and his relationship with the police Dept (not to mention being a judge's son) would likely"save" him.I don't think he is covering for anyone,but shouldn't these basic tests be done to rule it out AND verify that part of Zimmerman's story.Isn't that what police work is supposed to do!?
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 9:12 pm ET)
              3  
              I notice that you didn't bother to address

              despite several witnesses claiming that the police altered their statements (not their stamens, their statements. You would think that a college graduate could freaking SPELL) to be more in line with Zimmerman's claim of self defense


              Why not, I wonder.

              I'll tell you what. Leave out the part where you are too stupid to learn to spell, let alone attend college.

              Just address the fact that the cops tried to influence testimony at the scene. And then, a month later, mysteriously come up with a "witness" that agrees with Zimmerman against all the other witnesses.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 10:43 pm ET)
              3  
              The police had this witness statement the night of the incident, so it's not a month after, the media didn't find out about it for a month
              So you are claiming that, in spite of the fact that the Sanford PD made the Keystone Kops look like a SEAL team for a month, they held onto this one "witness account" that would have made them not look so stupid? Really? Are you really as stupid as you act on the interwebs?
              Report Abuse
        • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 9:14 pm ET)
             
          Wow you are so wrong it's not even funny.
          Amazingly, you are freaking HILARIOUS without even trying. Your antics have, on many occasions, have made me laugh so hard I almost peed myself.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by back home (March 29, 2012 7:11 pm ET)
             
          They should have taken the shooters pistil.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 2:20 pm ET)
        4 1
        Martin attacked Zimmerman and that's why Zimmerman shot him.

        I gotta say.

        If I am walking back from the store and I notice a vehicle slowly following me, then I notice the driver get out and start chasing me, I guarantee you that I will attack him as soon as he catches up to me.

        I seriously doubt that Martin did. From what his girlfriend says, he was attempting to get away from the man, and thought, at one point, that he had succeeded.

        However, in light of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, Trayvon Martin would have been WELL within his rights to have attacked Zimmerman. At the point that Zimmerman caught up to him, Martin SHOULD have feared for his life, and probably should have as soon as Zimmerman exited his vehicle and began to pursue him.

        We can all surmise how differently this story would be being reported if there HAD actually been a scuffle and Martin had managed to wrestle the murder weapon away from Zimmerman, or if the gun had gone off and killed Zimmerman.

        You think Fox and Hate Radio are smearing Martin now?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 10:47 am ET)
      15  
      Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012: We made a mistake. The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the family of the Trayvon Martin who was shot. We do not, however, apologize to the family of the person on the right side of the picture above, who is obviously just asking to be shot for appearing that way in that picture. If somebody happens to shoot that person, we'll post this picture again as evidence that he had it coming.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 12:11 pm ET)
        8  
        Good point, one that might be missed, or considered 'off topic', but important. What if they had found a photo of Martin looking a little more "gangster-y"? Juxtaposing that with a pleasant, smiling pic of Z-Man would make the murder a little easier to swallow?

        BTW, that photo of the kid flipping the bird with the droopy drawers- very typical of the Facebook and phone-pics I've seen from a lot of my friends' white, suburban kids of the same age.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 12:17 pm ET)
          8  
          Good point, one that might be missed, or considered 'off topic', but important. What if they had found a photo of Martin looking a little more "gangster-y"? Juxtaposing that with a pleasant, smiling pic of Z-Man would make the murder a little easier to swallow?

          Yes, yes it would, because they're more interested in playing to prejudices than in seeing justice done.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by aBeck in 10-O-C (March 27, 2012 12:54 pm ET)
            9 1
            When Trayvon Martin felt threatened by a stalker carrying a gun in a holster, by Florida law he had the right to stand his ground and defend himself by any means available to himself. So if he indeed ended up on top of Zimmerman and beating the crap out of him, I would say he was within his legal rights up to the moment that Zimmerman shot him.

            Apparently the Forida law only applies to the person who survives such an encounter. I would say this case has a serious problem in that regard.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by curiousindependent (March 27, 2012 6:19 pm ET)
              3  
              Really? You seem to think that, had Martin emerged as the one left breathing, that he wouldn't have gone to jail. I submit that not only would he have gone to jail, he would still be there, and he wouldn't have a lot of hope for ever leaving.

              He has too much melanin.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by eddie-george (March 27, 2012 11:00 am ET)
      9  
      It's Dan Riehl, who finds it too difficult to hide his true feelings about black people.

      And worth mentioning too that the Twitchy story was sourced from Brooks Bayne - widely mocked by conservatives, among other reasons for being the brains behind this Stormfront-friendly attack on Sandra Fluke.

      That's basically all they have. A couple of, let's be kind, melanin-skeptics plus Geraldo Rivera trying to argue that Trayvon Martin had it coming.

      You'd have thought they'd be sensible enough to take a cue from one of their heroes, Allen West, but they are too evil and stupid even to manage this.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:04 am ET)
        6 1
        I'm really surprised West is taking the sane position on this, considering he owes most of his appeal to conservatives to the fact that he tried to murder someone for being present while he was in a sh!tty mood.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 11:03 am ET)
      12  
      The smear of this young man started last week and became worse yesterday when the police leaked information on his school suspension for possible marijuana use, as well. Trayvon was tested for drugs after his death, if they had positive results, why weren't those leaked? Oh, could it be that they were negative, so release the suspension information that says that he had an empty bag in his backpack that may have contained marijuana at one time. Still, even if he was stoned, does being 17 and stoned mean you deserve to be shot to death? There is also some evidence that Trayvon may have hit Zimmerman at some point. Let's see, I'm walking back from a store in a gated neighborhood in the rainy dark and someone who has been following me and comes up to me, so I ask why I'm being followed. He demands to know what I'm doing and then he pushes me, I drop my phone and hit him back. He outweighs me by 80 pounds, so I don't really have much of a chance to hurt him, but he pulls out a gun and that's the end of me. What I don't understand from Conservatives is this, why is it okay to keep guns at your house and to answer the door with a gun in your hand because someone MIGHT TRY to hurt you and be considered an honorable patriot, but if someone accosts a young black man, a boy really, and he defends himself he deserves to be killed for just being there and then smeared as an example to others. It makes no sense to me.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:06 am ET)
        15 1
        If every teenager who's ever smoked weed deserves to be shot, we've got a pretty substantial backlog to clear.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 11:18 am ET)
          9  
          I used to teach. I assumed a large number of my students had or would eventually try it. I honestly didn't care, they may not have understood that about me, but I didn't care. I couldn't stand the smell and I am vehemently opposed to smoking anything, so I stayed away, but it doesn't make the ones who tried it bad people. I know 52 year old male who smokes on a regular basis. Youth is a time for trying lots of things and mistakes are made, but some good things are learned, too. This kid was cut down before his time and for no good reason. He deserved better.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:29 am ET)
            9  
            I shudder to think how they're going to try to push "stoner" and "psychotic thug who left the guy with the gun no choice" at the same time. Everything these people know about weed, they learned from "Reefer Madness".
            Report Abuse
            • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 11:37 am ET)
              7  
              Dude, that's like so true! Awesome! Most of the stoners I've known wouldn't hurt a fly, they're too busy being mellow.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by CoolSlaw (March 27, 2012 11:49 am ET)
              7  
              We've heard nothing about whether or not Martin was "stoned" when he was being stalked, confronted, or shot.

              Would it really matter? Is the sentence for a teenager who smokes weed now a sudden, violent, vigilante style execution?

              How could Zimmerman have even known about Martin's unfortunate, but fairly common teenage problems? How can they rationalize that as a justification for murder?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:54 am ET)
                6  
                Well, obviously Zimmerman was a mind-reader, which is what made him such a valuable asset to the Neighborhood Watch.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 2:22 pm ET)
                  3  
                  Stop vilifying Neighbourhood Watch. It is a responsible community program with sensible rules and protocols. Zimmerman is a self-appointed vigilante with no connection to the Neighbourhood Watch program and that is that.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 12:00 pm ET)
                6  
                No, it doesn't matter if he was stoned or not. But my point was, if the tox screen had come back positive, it would have been leaked, just like the suspension paperwork and twitter account. There is an element out there bent on making Trayvon responsible for his murder by pointing out his "bad" behavior. He was a kid, doing silly kid things; the penalty should not be dying face down in the grass and listed as a "john doe" for three days.
                Report Abuse
      • Author by Evangelical Democrat (March 27, 2012 11:31 am ET)
        8 2
        Most of what conservatives think makes no sense to people with a conscience.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by chuckie (March 27, 2012 2:27 pm ET)
        4  
        That's what I don't understand about the "stand your ground" law. If Trayvon DID attack Zimmerman, wasn't Trayvon standing his ground. He was in a place he had a right to be and Zimmerman was following him with a gun. Trayvon had the right to attack him. It seems that by law, that Trayvon had the right to shoot him! Or does the law only apply to the survivor.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by theegrobe (March 27, 2012 11:14 am ET)
      11 3
      if zimmerman was jumped from behind , like the local media is spinning this story, then how was trayvon, who was a hundred pounds lighter than zimmerman, shot in the chest?
      it's a big fat lie.
      he needs to confess to this racially motivated murder, and turn himself in.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:24 am ET)
        9 3
        Presumably, Martin used his ungodly blackity-black strength to twist Zimmerman's head 180 degrees. Zimmerman got better, praise Jesus.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 11:26 am ET)
        6 1
        Not to mention, he had grass on his back and a bloody nose. If he was taken down from behind, he would have muddied or skinned his knees. I feel he probably grabbed or shoved Trayvon and he stumbled backwards when the kid popped him in the nose in self-defense. I am very curious to see what the bullistics on the wound has to say. Was Trayvon shot from the ground or from a standing position? If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, as some suggest, why did Trayvon end up face down in the grass? There is a lot we don't know.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 2:15 pm ET)
             
          IIRC one of the witnesses said that Martin was on the ground and Zimmerman was sitting on him, while Martin screamed for help.

          In one of the 911 tapes, you can clearly hear Martin calling for help, and then there is an unmistakable firearm report and an immediate cessation of the calls for help.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 5:04 pm ET)
             
          Also, the one lady said that, at least during what she saw, there was no punching or fighting going on. Zimmerman (allegedly) already had Martin subdued and was sitting on him on the ground. Martin was yelling for help. There was no self defense, on Zimmerman's part, as this woman alleges.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 11:22 am ET)
      5 19
      Did some research MSNBS, CNN, and FOX had exactly zero stories about the 13 year old in Kansas City who was doused with gasoline and lit on fire while he assailants were screaming this is what you deserve white boy.

      Fairly sure this would be a national story if it had the races involved been reversed.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 11:25 am ET)
        18 5
        Yes. That was a 13 year old boy to suffered first degree burns.

        He'll recover.

        Trayvon Martin is dead.

        What is that draws a guy like you to false equivalence arguments?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 11:37 am ET)
          2 20
          so just because the boy was lucky and his mother was able to put him out it's no big deal? There are 300 homicides a week in the US many just more tragic if not more than the Martin case. The only reason this one is receiving nation attentions is because the left is using it to score political points. It's a double left win whammy, you get to attack gun laws and whites.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:38 am ET)
            14 2
            There are 300 homicides a week in the US many just more tragic if not more than the Martin case.

            For the SECOND TIME: in how many of those cases is the person responsible just standing there and never gets arrested or charged?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 11:46 am ET)
              1 18
              Never? It’s been a month. Being responsible doesn’t automatically make you guilty none of us know what happened none of us have all the information. I prefer to let the criminal justice system work and let the professional investigators do their jobs, and not jump to conclusions and convict someone based off politicized media reports. Does anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse incident?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:48 am ET)
                13 1
                I prefer to let the criminal justice system work

                You are aware that a person has to be arrested and charged before they can be put on trial, yes?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 11:57 am ET)
                  11  
                  Yes, this is the person who has the MA in Criminal law or whatever and feels "white" people are under attack.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by chazmanr (March 27, 2012 1:19 pm ET)
                    9  
                    Highlighter claims to have a master's degree?!

                    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

                    I didn't know that they started selling those out of the back of Rolling Stone.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:51 am ET)
                13 1
                Does anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse incident?

                Yeah, I remember it. Not entirely sure what it has to do with anything, other than your "White men are so, so victimized" whine. Hey, everybody here owes me ten bucks if/when highliter mentions Tawana Brawley. At the rate he's going, he'll probably be on "but how come THEY'RE allowed to say it?" by mid-afternoon.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 12:09 pm ET)
                  7  
                  Well, the Black chick made up a story and it got those poor White boys in trouble. Sorry, not taking your bet, I don't like to lose.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 11:53 am ET)
                10 1
                The point is, the criminal justice system overseeing this matter did nothing. They released Zimmerman because of the Stand Your Ground nonsense, and we all to ready to leave it be until there was an outcry over all of this.

                And the Duke incident? Seriously? Another false equivalence?

                The kids maintained were innocent and they were exonerated

                Zimmerman admits to the shoot, and, at this point, has been charged with nothing.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 11:58 am ET)
                10  
                You have no idea what the outrage in this case is about, do you? Zimmerman was not charged with anything and, had the outrage not occurred, he would not ever have been charged with anything. He was allowed to take the gun he murdered this kid with HOME. They didn't even drug test Zimmerman. They gathered NO EVIDENCE from him.

                Zimmerman was the intruder . . . he had no business in the gated community where he killed this boy. The boy was the invitee on the property, not Zimmerman. He didn't even live there. He FOLLOWED this kid and murdered him.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 12:58 pm ET)
                  1 14
                  Zimmerman was the intruder . . . he had no business in the gated community where he killed this boy


                  Where are you getting that?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:14 pm ET)
                    8  
                    From the address search that was done showing that Zimmerman did not live in the gated community.

                    Do try to keep up.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jeter2 (March 27, 2012 2:07 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Mini & Bintx, I haven't seen that reported anywhere. Why did Zimmerman appoint himself neighborhood watchman if he didn't live in that neighborhood? And if it's gated how did he gain access?

                      This story has so many different versions, it's hard to know what's true or false.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 3:02 pm ET)
                        1 6
                        This story has so many different versions, it's hard to know what's true or false.



                        That's what I've been saying, people want mob justice. Let the system work. Too many people who don't even know how the system work are trying to judge it with unconfirmed information put out by the media.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 3:16 pm ET)
                          5 1
                          That's what I've been saying, people want mob justice
                          No, just justice. Ya know like in the phrsae "masters degree in criminal justice".
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:43 pm ET)
                          4  
                          Until this became a national story and people got involved the only story was Zimmermans and the police were accepting it. Now the state is taking over the investigation and the Federal gvoernment is getting involved and the police chief has removed himself(albeit temporarily, a chief who was hired to fix the racial problems within the department)due to a no confidence vote of the city council. If it wasn't for the publicity this would have been swept under the carpet as justifiable and it wouldn't be the 1st time.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by whatIthink (March 27, 2012 5:06 pm ET)
                          4  
                          No, dingleberry, what Zimmerman was mob justice. The people want the justice system to do is actual job.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 5:20 pm ET)
                        2  
                        I heard it reported last night. He lived in the area, but not in the gated community where it occurred. Further, he simply appointed himself a neighborhood watch "captain." He had no official association with them.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by jeter2 (March 27, 2012 5:52 pm ET)
                          3  
                          Bintx, since I last posted I went searching for the story. Several accounts I've read are saying that Spike Lee tweeted the wrong address [one that is outside of the gated neighborhood] for Zimmerman. Zimmerman does live in the gated community.

                          And yes I know Zimmerman appointed himself. That's one of the reasons I figured the story you heard was probably wrong. Why would he be a neighborhood captain appointed or not for a neighborhood he doesn't live in.

                          There are, as I said in my other post, too many versions of this story floating around to know what's true or false.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Bronwyn (March 28, 2012 2:59 am ET)
                            3  
                            Jeter, you are right.

                            Also, members of that neighborhood watch said that Zimmerman attended their last meeting (I can't remember the time between that and killing) and several claimed that at that meeting, Zimmerman didn't say or doing anything that caused them to be concerned about him.

                            Also, they allowed Zimmerman to be their NHW captain, knowing he had not taken the NHW training offered by the Sheriffs Office.

                            And that NHW were holding meetings, and apparently appointing "captains" etc. but they were not registered with the National NHW association. According to Chris Talkie, director of the NHWA for the National Sheriffs Association.
                            Tulko, also made a public statement that "Zimmerman broke cardinal rules."
                            Report Abuse
              • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 2:29 pm ET)
                4  
                dimbulb, if you were really, really stupid that would make you way smarter than you are.

                Stop digging you berk, you're getting sillier and sillier.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 11:44 am ET)
            11  
            Hey, you just compared Trayvon Martin's shooting a homicide! Good for you!

            Of course, that's more than what the authorities overseeing this matter has done. Zimmerman was admittedly the stalking Martin, and admittedly shot him. And he, of course, has been charged with nothing.

            That's where your false equivalency comes into play. Not because of race, but because of the nature and circumstances of the acts. One child burned. One child shot. One child recovering. One child dead. Two assailants unknown and being sought. One assailant known and released.

            Get it?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 11:47 am ET)
            10 1
            That's a disgusting and cowardly allegation. I work with a lot of African Americans, and this story bothered them. They took it as just another proof that being a Black male is a dangerous thing to be. Yes, there are 300 homocides a week in this country, and how many of them are young Black men? Murder is the leading cause of death for young Black men, not car accidents or suicides but murder. The incarceration rate for African American males is much higher than it is for Whites, too. The African American community has every right to be angry and protesting. And why shouldn't the death of a loved young man, a good student be worth the same news coverage as a Lacy Peterson or Casey Anthony or JonBenet Ramsey? Yep, this story is a boon for you folks, highlighter, you get to attack Black people and whine about how unfair you are being treated because you're a White male.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 11:59 am ET)
              1 20
              If the back community really gave a crap about their youth they would focus on the no snitching crap in their communities. Do you know that there are communities where the arrest rate for homicides is less than 5 percent because police can't get anyone to talk? In Colombia Missouri I there is a facebook page dedicated to outing black people who cooperate with police. Black on black crime is a far greater problem in black communities than white on black crime.

              there are 300 homocides a week in this country, and how many of them are young Black men? Murder is the leading cause of death for young Black men, not car accidents or suicides but murder


              Yep and according to the DOJ 94% of black homicides are committed by other blacks.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 12:02 pm ET)
                16  
                On the next exciting episode of "Highliter, Action Troll!", our hero wonders why people keep calling him racist.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 12:03 pm ET)
                11  
                If the back community really gave a crap about their youth they would focus on the no snitching crap in their communities.

                If anyone actually cared about you, they'd keep you away from a keyboard and an internet connection.

                Seriously, your trolling is usually at least a little entertaining, but this time it's just stupid.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 12:05 pm ET)
                  11  
                  There's a huge backlash against gang culture among older black people, and to not know that, one would have to have had little to no contact with black people at all. So naturally, highwhiter doesn't know that.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 12:10 pm ET)
                    8  
                    There's also the bit about misrecognizing lack of trust and confidence in the police for "no snitching crap." It's a bit difficult to trust an authority that has trouble finding reason to arrest a man for shooting an unarmed child in your community.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:17 pm ET)
                      8  
                      to vysotsky; yes and then release info. about possible drug use. It seems the police departmment bent over backwards to believe Zimmermans story.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 1:37 pm ET)
                        7  
                        What really eats at me? The Sanford PD had Tray's cell phone, it kept ringing and they didn't answer. They didn't call the last number dialed. They let that boy lie in the morgue for three days before his parents found out. I can't imagine how his parents feel. To grieve and to cope with this incompetent miscarriage of justice.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 2:44 pm ET)
                          3  
                          A good case for an action alleging professional negligence and claiming damages for nervous shock. Police Department = deep pockets and a decent size payout (exemplary damages would not be out of the question in view of the egregious nature of the negligence) could force a bit of a shake-up in the organisation.

                          That on top of a wrongful death suit against Zimmerman to bankrupt the creep.
                          Report Abuse
              • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 12:07 pm ET)
                10  
                Maybe Blacks have banned together and refused to co-operate because they have been treated so badly in the past? When a Black male is charged with a crime, the penalty is usually much stiffer than it is for White males charged with the same crime. And the incarceration rate for Black males is very high, and prison populations are mostly Black. Why is that? And what kind of trust does that build within the Black community for a judicial system that seems to favor Whites? When you figure that out, maybe you'll understand why snitching and collaboration are viewed so negatively.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:12 pm ET)
                11  
                Thanks for the advice highliter but no thanks. With police departments like Sandford no wonder there is distrust but you keep telling us what we should be concerned with. We always need white folks like you to tell us what we should think and do and how we should show love for our kids. You sure see through us. We sure thanks ya' boss.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 1:10 pm ET)
                  13  
                  You know, congero, maybe if you dropped the snark and listened, you might learn something.

                  I can't tell you how frustrating it is for middle-aged (or older) white guys like me to try to explain racial issues to non-whites, and see all of our wisdom and insight go in one ear and out the other.

                  It's as if you think you know better than us. And that's not very respectful.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 1:32 pm ET)
                    7  
                    lol.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 2:12 pm ET)
                      7  
                      I just got an email requesting that I meet somebody at a job site - tomorrow morning, 6 am, in Compton. Maybe I'll bring along my notes, and see if I can get something to sink in. I'm definitely wearing a hoodie.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 3:51 pm ET)
                        5  
                        Make sure you use the term what "you people" need, or "if you're serious", that should perk up ears and endear you.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 4:56 pm ET)
                          3  
                          Haha, good advice. Maybe I'll tip some people off to how they've been brainwashed, while I'm at it.
                          Report Abuse
              • Author by beDecent (March 27, 2012 12:18 pm ET)
                8  
                In response to the "No Snitching" campaign, several "Start Snitching" campaigns were born (from rappers even!).
                Report Abuse
              • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 12:23 pm ET)
                8  
                Guess what? What you posted has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that George Zimmerman stalked this young man who was unarmed and MURDERED him. Nothing.

                Please don't EVER pretend that you have a master's degree in anything again.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by JoeSixpack (March 27, 2012 12:29 pm ET)
                9  
                If the back community really gave a crap about their youth they would focus on the no snitching crap in their communities.


                Newsflash, idiot: "snitching" can get you killed.

                In spite of this, "they" ARE focusing on the "no snitching crap in their communities."

                Note the date on that second story: 1/22/2008. That means you've been ignorant on the subject for a minimum of 4 years, though of course we all know it's actually been much, much longer.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 11:55 am ET)
            8  
            Wow! Just wow! Your binar thnking really hurts! Just like the article said,thats the only way you can understand it.

            Iraqi Muslim woman dies after beating in California home, left with hateful note
            Your text to link here...

            She and Trayvon were killed due to stereotypes and hate they aren't juxtaposed against each other. Whites under attack? Amazing!
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Tony195616 (March 27, 2012 11:29 am ET)
        9 2
        No suspects or arrests in that story yet. They're still investigating whether this is a made up story.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:34 am ET)
        9 1
        And the cops knew exactly who did it and refused to make an arrest? Wow, that IS awful.
        Click out of your crush videos long enough to Google "false equivalency" and get back to us, 'kay? Maybe then, together, we can figure out how to solve the problems of the poor, oppressed white people.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by eddie-george (March 27, 2012 11:34 am ET)
        8 1
        I'm fairly sure I could project a false equivalence if it were needed.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 11:35 am ET)
        10 1
        There was a story on the NBC affiliate in Kansas City in February, there are no follow-up stories on the incident by any news source, but lots and lots of reposts of the original story. If this was such a serious hate crime issue, why didn't the media report more of it? Could it be that the school district let the boy transfer and that was the end of it? Could it be that the boys were apprehended and punished? His injuries were minor, just first and second degree burns and singed eyebrows. It is serious if he was being bullied, but it sounds like things were being done to fix the situation and his life was not in danger. Trayvon Martin died for the sin of being Black and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The two stories do not balance.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:40 am ET)
          9  
          If this was such a serious hate crime issue, why didn't the media report more of it?

          Because the librul media hates white people, obviously. That's why there are hardly any white anchors.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 6:28 pm ET)
             
          His injuries were minor, just first and second degree burns and singed eyebrows.

          Interesting that having gasoline poured on you and then set aflame would result in such minor injuries. I am not arguing that the boy and his family fabricated the story, but who knows.

          They're still investigating whether this is a made up story--by Tony195616


          Anyone remember Ashley Todd?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:35 am ET)
        11 1
        while he[sic] assailants were screaming this is what you deserve white boy.

        As opposed to Zimmerman apologists like yourself, who are screaming that this was what Martin deserved.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SFG (March 27, 2012 11:40 am ET)
        4  
        If they find the perpertrators, they will be prosecuted. The outrage over this case is because under Florida law, Zimmerman's actions may have actually been legal and he stands to go free.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 11:53 am ET)
        9  
        And??? I heard about this story right after it happened.

        No offense, stupid, but his black assailants are being investigated for hate crimes and will be arrested and charged for the attack. Zimmerman? He not only was not arrested, he was allowed to keep the gun that he murdered this young man who did NOTHING. Do you see the difference here?

        Hate crimes are hate crimes and they are disgusting, no matter who the perpetrator is.

        Nice talking points parroting, highliter, but, as usual, you're about two weeks too late.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by aBeck in 10-O-C (March 27, 2012 12:35 pm ET)
          9  
          Mother Jones has confirmed that the police seized Zimmerman's gun.
          Not mentioned was WHEN the gun was siezed. He still has his license to carry and with it, by Florida law, can legally buy another without a waiting period.

          I did some research last night and found a few-days-old local news station video on their interview with the witness.

          From the transcript of the news segment.

          The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't want to be shown on camera.

          "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help'…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

          Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

          "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.


          Adding a note of confusion was the online copy of the police report.
          In the "offenses section" of police report it reads as:
          Homicide-negligent manslaughter-unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:03 pm ET)
            7  
            I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
            If this is true, there will be a record of this 911 call. Unlike cell phone conversations, 911 calls are kept for a period of time.

            I have a feeling this call will not be found or released.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MiniTru (March 27, 2012 1:21 pm ET)
              4  
              Because it doesn't exist.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 4:11 pm ET)
                6
              From what I've read he did call 911 and the police took his statement. They also took his wife’s statement who was hiding in the house.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:35 pm ET)
                5  
                With your obvious racial bias..."If black people were serious,etc.," i can imagine what kind of MP you were. Heaven help us if you take the same prejudices into the classroom.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 6:34 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Oh, come on, you don't seriously believe that highliter was actually ever in the military, let alone an MP, do you?
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 5:28 pm ET)
            2  
            It's being reported that the investigating officer filed an affidavit the night of the murder stating that he wanted to file manslaughter charges but the State Attorney refused.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 6:31 pm ET)
            1  
            In the "offenses section" of police report it reads as:
            Homicide-negligent manslaughter-unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.
            What unlawful act are they alleging that Martin was in the process of perpetrating?

            Could it be "walking in a gated community while black"?
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 12:18 pm ET)
        9  
        Hi, Liter. In your opinion, why is Fox ignoring the story you mentioned? Do you think Fox is anti-White ?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 6:36 pm ET)
          1  
          Apparently nobody is issuing any talking points about that fact.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 1:24 pm ET)
        8  
        Did some research MSNBS, CNN, and FOX had exactly zero stories about the 13 year old in Kansas City who was doused with gasoline and lit on fire while he assailants were screaming this is what you deserve white boy.

        How did you hear about this unreported story?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 6:33 pm ET)
          5  
          I think hitler will answer that... right after he answers my question about why Fox ignored his red herring. I asked it six hours ago, and he's been off on all sorts of side roads, but no answer to that one.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Tony195616 (March 27, 2012 11:27 am ET)
      11 5
      Try & imagine how the right wing media would be spinning this if the shooter was a black man trailing after a 17 year old kid. They would refer to the shooter as a menacing black man who the teenager tried to fight back against. Then said black man shot the kid. Does anyone really think the police would not have arrested that man?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by highliter (March 27, 2012 11:41 am ET)
        1 17
        If a black man killed a white kid we wouldn’t even know this case existed.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:43 am ET)
          15  
          Yeah, if there's one thing our media pays no attention to, it's the deaths of white children. Everybody would have ignored the Caylee Anthony case if she hadn't been black.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 27, 2012 1:05 pm ET)
            11 1
            I love the wingnuts " If so & so happened, then..." wild-azz predictions. They'd be meaningless if they had any basis in reality, if they resembled past events in any way. But they always seem to be completely opposed to reality.

            Remember that video of a black SEIU member in a mild shoving match ( unclear even who fell down)? That was in the media for weeks as a 'violent union thug attack".

            And those New Black Panthers, a couple of guys with sticks standing outside a polling booth, who didn't touch anybody? The righties are still screaming about this outrageous crime.

            How F-ing delusional does one have to be to imagine that, if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white, this wouldn't be a story ? Talk about your willful ignorance.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Tony195616 (March 27, 2012 11:44 am ET)
          12  
          Are you kidding? If non-black unarmed high school student was shot by a black man claiming self defense and was not even arrested Faux News would have this as their top story. Admit it
          Report Abuse
        • Author by MidnightWriter (March 27, 2012 11:47 am ET)
          12  
          Wow. A straw-murder.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by vysotsky (March 27, 2012 11:48 am ET)
          9  
          Type "white murdered by" into google. Let me know how the search engine provides options to automatically fill in the rest of the query.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 6:53 pm ET)
            1  
            Too cool.

            white murdered by black
            white couple murdered by blacks
            white people murdered by blacks

            Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (March 27, 2012 11:55 am ET)
          7  
          Yes, we would. The black man would also be charged immediately with murder. Zimmerman wasn't charged with anything at all and was allowed to leave WITH THE GUN he murdered this young man with.

          Still keeping it stupid, I see.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 12:06 pm ET)
          5  
          I got a tape for you highliter:

          http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Tape+of+Black+misssissippi+murdered+by+teens+in+truck&view=detail&mid=52D139D5A71252FC49C852D139D5A71252FC49C8&first=0&qpvt=Tape+of+Black+misssissippi+murdered+by+teens+in+truck
          Report Abuse
        • Author by sleepy joe (March 27, 2012 1:24 pm ET)
          6  
          That's probably because if a black man killed a white kid he would be in jail already.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Imbecile (March 27, 2012 1:50 pm ET)
          5  
          If a black man killed a white kid we wouldn’t even know this case existed.


          I know, right!?

          And while we're at it, doesn't it just bug the hell out of you that they get to call each other n**ger, but when you do it, they get all uppity and s**t??

          /snark off

          Seriously, highliter, are you trying to sound like a whiny racist? Because you're "why is it...?" line of reasoning is exactly what one finds at places like Stormfront and other white nationalist discussion forums.

          So, if you are a racist, go f**k yourself. If you honestly aren't a racist, you should seriously consider educating yourself so you stop sounding like one. I'd suggest stop repeating the racist line of questioning and reasoning you're picking up on right wing blogs.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by NMFreelancer (March 27, 2012 3:18 pm ET)
          4  
          lolifer: "If a black man killed a white kid we wouldn’t even know this case existed."
          If you had never posted another single thought on this site, this one would automatically place you in the never-to-be-taken-seriously category.
          Congratulations, nutbag!
          Report Abuse
      • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 6:38 pm ET)
        1  
        Hell, don't even imagine that it was a "scary black man" stalking a white kid.

        Just imagine if Trayvon had managed to wrestle the gun away or if the gun had gone off and killed Zimmerman.

        Martin would have gone to jail, right then, and he would still be there. Self defense be damned.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Avicenna59 (March 27, 2012 11:37 am ET)
      13 1
      You should listen to Melanie Morgan and Brian Sussman on KSFO in San Francisco. They are complete idiots. As a conservative, I will no longer call myself a conservative because "conservative" thought has been taken over by a bunch of right-wing, Tea Party nutcases who believe it is appropriate to legislate their moral and personal beliefs for others to follow, which is the exact opposite of the principles this country was founded upon.

      I'm not sure why present-day conservatives think that enriching the rich more and impoverishing the poor more and decimating the middle class are good deeds or make sense.

      I fail to see how conservative means being racist, xenophobic, jingoistic and misogynistic.

      Yet that is what conservatives have become: a caricature.

      And can someone explain how all these evangelical Christian conservatives can worship Ayn Rand?

      As a former conservative who isn't a "liberal" because society says I'm "conservative" because of my moral beliefs (which I don't think anyone else should be forced to follow, such as not being in favor of abortion, etc., unless a mother's life is threatened, or rape, incest, etc.).

      The tragic issue of Trevon's homicide (I believe a jury will render a second-degree murder conviction, if it ever goes to trial, and murder is a verdict rendered by a jury, not the press) shows what is wrong with present-day conservatives: conservative ranks have been infected and afflicted with many nutbags who are racist, xenophobic, jingoistic and misogynistic.

      From a former conservative without an identity and a former conservative who doesn't hate liberals simply for having some different opinions.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by SFG (March 27, 2012 11:42 am ET)
        4  
        <i>Yet that is what conservatives have become: a caricature.</i>

        Thank FOX News for this.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by epkklk851 (March 27, 2012 12:48 pm ET)
        7 1
        I live a very Conservative lifestyle. I'm monogamous, attend Mass every Sunday, pay my bills, pay taxes, take responsibility for my mistakes, don't do drugs, rarely even drink and hardly ever cuss. I also look like how I live, a straight-laced, middle-aged matron. But I have never expected anyone else to live my life. And I've always advocated for people to be able to live their lifes with the same freedom I've lived mine. That's why I call myself a Liberal. I don't hate Conservatives, but I do get pretty short tempered when I hear them making up stuff.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by CoolSlaw (March 27, 2012 11:40 am ET)
      9 1
      The sad thing about the right wing media response is that it is completely predictable.

      They seem to have been instructed to never give an inch on the media landscape. They simply can't admit that this was a tragic event for the family and community where it happened. They simply can't grant us that in this one specific case, the "stand your ground" laws may have been misused.

      The modern conservative movement has been marked by this rigid, top-down inflexibility. They have an agenda bought and paid for, and something as trivial as facts or a tragic murder will not make a difference.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 3:34 pm ET)
        6  
        The problem that the Right Wing Media have with this story is that it speaks directly to the Original Sin of the Unites States of America - the sin of enshrined hypocritical racism in its Constitution. Neither a Civil War at the near Centennial nor a strong campaign, through Executive Action, Judicial Determination, Legislative Action and, most important, the direct,peaceful action of the ordinary citizens near its Bicentennial has managed to expunge the legacy of this evil.

        Even the election of an African-American President has not removed the stain of racism from the nation. In my opinion it will never be excised from the national psyche until the passive racists who make up much of the "Conservative" commentariat stop pretending that they are not racist and are recognised for what they are. Maybe then some of those whose benign racism is more a consequence of ignorance will wake up to themselves. Maybe.

        Sure as eggs, the modern-day U.S. is paying for the sins of those guys back at the end of the 18th Century and until the matter is dealt with definitively the U.S. will continue to be defined by racism.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 3:55 pm ET)
          3  
          the modern-day U.S. is paying for the sins of those guys back at the end of the 18th Century and until the matter is dealt with definitively the U.S. will continue to be defined by racism.

          Chickens coming home to roost? Rev Wright, is that you? =>
          Report Abuse
          • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 4:40 pm ET)
            4 1
            If more people actually listened to Rev. Wright the U.S. would be a far better place.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Old_Benjamin (March 27, 2012 6:16 pm ET)
              4  
              If more people actually listened to Rev. Wright the U.S. would be a far better place.
              Agreed.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (March 27, 2012 4:38 pm ET)
          3  
          Wow! Well said grmce. Well said. Don't forgot the POTUS had to show his birthcertificate and some still don't believe it,i.e., most of the Republican Party.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:12 pm ET)
            1  
            Yep. Can anyone name the only other POTUS who was required to show his birth certificate, his party, and his religion (the actual reason for his being forced to show his bc)?
            Report Abuse
      • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:09 pm ET)
        1  
        They simply can't grant us that in this one specific case, the "stand your ground" laws may have been misused.
        The reason is that they have, for so long, pointed to single anomalous examples as evidence of why all liberal policies are no good. If they then point out that there is even one single example of a "conservative" policy gone wrong, they might then feel that they have to attack the entirety of "conservative" policy.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by newzhound (March 27, 2012 11:50 am ET)
      11  
      Did Michelle Malkin apologize for calling him "Boy?"

      PS: "Twitchy" is an astonishly dumb name.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (March 27, 2012 11:53 am ET)
        7  
        I assume it derives its name from the tweakers who are her key demographic.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by grmce (March 27, 2012 3:38 pm ET)
          2  
          Sounds like someone might have Tourette's syndrome - could explain some of her strange noises.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by wmspears (March 27, 2012 2:47 pm ET)
        3
      Is everyone here afraid to use their real name?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (March 28, 2012 11:33 am ET)
        1  
        Why would you want to, or feel you need to?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by TheAncients (March 28, 2012 2:41 pm ET)
        2  
        Is everyone here afraid to use their real name?


        Not at all. My name is Phil. Does that help?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by highlyunlikely (March 28, 2012 3:14 pm ET)
        2  
        No, in fact many do. Got a relevant question?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:17 pm ET)
        2  
        Mine is Mike. What's yours?
        Hang around and most of us will eventually clue you in on our real names.

        Well, not the "conservatives", they do seem to be shy of that. Of course, given the nature of their postings, I can't really say as I blame them for not using their real names. Especially if you go to something like foxnews.com or theblaze.com . If you think they post hateful stuff here, you should go to one of those sites. Though, I would recommend wearing a full hazmat suit. And have a barf bag handy.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by curiousindependent (March 28, 2012 7:20 pm ET)
        1  
        Actually though, you really SHOULDN'T use your real name on the internet. I mean, a quick google reveals that there are 382 william spears in the USA. Which one are you?
        If I was inclined, I could find out. Which is why my real name isn't here. Mike is as far as you will get. How many Mikes do you reckon there are in the USA?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by MiniTru (March 29, 2012 9:08 am ET)
           
        No. My name is Chuck.
        Report Abuse